🎤 Tony Pulis Interview with OLBG

Interview May 2025

Q: Who are you predicting to win the Championship play-offs? 

TP: “It's really interesting because if you look at the form in the last four or five games, Sunderland have really hit a dip. They've almost come off a cliff. Was that because they knew they were going to be in the playoffs and the lads have taken a step back? 

“As you change the team, there are question marks over that. They're in a very different position to Coventry City getting in and Bristol City getting in, those two will be absolutely delighted they're in. 

“Sheffield United will be devastated that they didn’t make the top two, having fought all the way through, but Chris Wilder is a very, very experienced manager. He knows the scene, he knows how to cope with it. So there's all pluses and minuses. 

“I think City and Bristol City and Coventry go into it really with nothing to lose. Nobody expects them to beat Sunderland or Sheffield United, so they're free. They've got a free hit. 

“Two games, free hit. No pressure. The pressure's on Sunderland and Sheffield United and maybe it should be because of the seasons they've had.” 

Q: How impressed have you been with Frank Lampard and Coventry City? 

TP: “I spoke to Mark Robins when Mark had left the football club and Mark really believed that he had a squad capable of getting in the top six if not promoted. I think they started poorly, but they'd started poorly the year before as well and then came good over a period of time. So he was absolutely convinced they had enough quality there if they got a little bit of good fortune in the games and built up some momentum and some steam. 

“That's what Frank's done. He's gone in there. Maybe things that didn't drop for Mark have dropped for Frank And he's carried it on and he's done an absolutely fantastic job. 

“Liam Manning at Bristol City, he’s done a great job there as well. Those two will be going into it and thinking, lads, we have got nothing to worry about. Let's go and just enjoy it and really take them on.”

Q: What have you liked about Sunderland and can they get over the line? 

TP: “You just don’t know if the players, because they got the number of points they needed early, knew they were going to be in and they dropped off the top two or top three. 

“You don't know whether the players psychologically have taken a step back. You don't know whether the manager has eased up a little bit. You don't know. It's a shootout. 

“I've been in the situation myself a couple of times and it's very, very difficult to call. If you look at the clubs, you look at Sheffield United, they've been in the Premier League in the past few years and dropped down and gone back up. 

“You would say they would be favourites along with Sunderland because of their support and everything else and where Sunderland had finished. But really, you never know, you never know. 

“I didn't know Regis Le Bris up until he joined Sunderland and he's really, really impressed me. I think he seems like a very level-headed person. They play some very attractive football. 

“They've got some very, very good young players and everybody has bedded in and everybody seems to be comfortable with everybody. 

“In the last six or seven games it has dropped off. Whether they can regain that confidence and whether they can regain that rhythm that helped them win games, only time will tell.” 

Q: Who would you like seeing managing West Brom next season? 

TP: “Personally, I know James Morrison and Brunty (Chris Brunt) and Bo (Boaz Myhill) as well, three great lads who've been at that football club for a long time. 

“They know the ins and outs of the football club. They've worked with good people. They've had good managers they've worked with. They're sensible lads. Mo's has been with Scotland as well, so he's had the experience of working at an international level. I'd give it to the lads. 

“I would seriously give it to the lads and let them have a go. They've got blue and white stripes through them. They are very, very committed to that football club. And I think it'd be good for the supporters. 

“I think if it was announced almost immediately, I think a lot of supporters would be absolutely delighted if they do that.” 

Q: What can Middlesbrough do to improve next season? 

TP: “I don’t have the stats, but I think Middlesbrough have thrown away so many leads in games they’ve been winning over the season. It'd be interesting to see how many points

they've actually dropped from a winning position. So that's something Michael Carrick would have to look at. 

“Then being a little bit critical, maybe that strength down the middle of the pitch, that real solid strength to see you through the games. But, I've got great respect for Steve Gibson. He's a smashing man. 

“The amount of money that Steve has put into that football club. I met an ex chairman of mine as well in London yesterday just for a coffee, Steve Lansdowne. And then you've got the Coates family at Stoke, British owners and owners who live in those areas who have pumped millions and millions and millions of pounds into their football clubs. 

“Sometimes they don't get appreciated the way they should be appreciated. And I'll tell you now, having done the rounds myself, it's really, really great working with people who actually come from the area and understand the support. 

“Football is very, very tribal and it's one of the greatest strengths in this country, that's why we've got great leagues because whether you're at Northampton or whatever, the supporters support their football club and their football team and they'll travel up and down the country to watch them every Saturday. 

“Having your own owners who come from that area and understand that area and understand the principles within that area is just amazing and like I say, today especially, people take things for granted so much. 

“Those three clubs I've just mentioned, there's only three of them, and I'm sure there's more there. The people I know, they should be so grateful to their owners because they have put their own money into not only the football clubs but into the area as well. 

“For Middlesbrough, keeping hold of leads would be the thing. Down the middle of the pitch, the backbone of the team. When you're in winning positions, to stay in winning positions you need a very, very strong core.” 

Q: Where could we see Danny Rohl next season, Southampton? 

TP: “Danny Rohl has done smashing at Sheffield Wednesday, I know they've dropped off as well, but he's done a smashing job. Obviously he's worked at Southampton so he's got a connection with the football club. 

“Southampton is, my little grandson's there, a fantastic football club, it's run really, really well and if he gets the job, and even without appointing anyone yet, they'll be one of the favourites next year in the Championship to go back up.” 

Q: Jack Wilshere is in temporary charge at Norwich City, do you think he could become the permanent manager?

TP: “You never know. I worked with Harry Redknapp at Bournemouth. I've been Harry's coach for a couple of years. He would, as you do as a manager, get very, very emotional over defeats or if people get injured or while things go against you, you get really emotional. 

“I used to sit back and watch him and think, well, would I have done that? There was a great lad there, John Kirk, clubs in those days had real old-fashioned people behind the scenes who'd been at their football clubs for years and years and years. Great football people, and I mean great football people, every club had them. 

“Whether it was in the kit room or whether they were cleaning up or whatever, there were always football people behind who'd played and knew the game. 

“I came in one day and said, Harry's really got emotionally upset over a result. I asked Kirk: What do you think we should do? And he said to me, Tone, until you sit in the seat, you don't really know what the pressure is. 

“Then when I got the job, I really, really understood what Kirkie was talking about because there's nothing like it. And all the managers out there who might be listening to this, they'll understand what I'm talking about.” 

Q: Do Stoke have the right man in Mark Robins to lead them up the division? What do they need this summer? 

TP: “I think that one of the issues at Stoke is that John Coates has been so helpful. He's given every manager everything they wanted and the recruitment has not been good. 

“They're good managers without a shadow of doubt. Have a look at what Alex Neil has done at Millwall. At what Nathan Jones is now doing at Charlton. 

“They've had good managers there, but the recruitment has been poor. And I don't think there's any question that what they've got to do, they've got to sort that out. 

“Mark is a top, top man, great lad. They've got Jon Walters there now, they've got Ryan Shawcross there, they know the DNA of the football club, they know about the area, they know what the area's about, they know what the supporters want. 

“I think what they've got to do, instead of chasing players all the time now, they've got to really, really knuckle down what they want. Get a smaller, more compact group of people together. 

“This is me saying this from the outside, they need to really work them out into a system and get them playing for the football club. I'm sure he'll do it. He's got the experience to do it. 

“He's got a couple of young coaches he's brought in as well who will help him along the way. I'm just hoping and praying. I've talked about Gibbo (Steve Gibson) and Steve Lansdown, the Coates family are just, you just can't, you can't meet better people. Wherever you are, you just can't meet better people than them.

“John has taken over from Peter and he is absolutely desperate for the football club to be a success. It's terrible to say, but maybe he's made mistakes and just given them everything to be successful instead of controlling it a little bit more in hindsight. 

“But that's John. John is so desperate for the football club to be successful, he's actually, in some ways, he's actually not helped the situation by giving so much to the managers so early on maybe. Fingers crossed, they'll always be very, very dear to me, that football club.” 

Q: How good of a manager is Derby’s John Eustace in the Championship? 

TP: “I think John's a top manager. I think if you have a look at what he did at QPR before he went to Blackburn, then what he did at Blackburn and now what he's done at Derby, his star is shining nice and brightly at the moment. 

“I spoke to him during the season on different things and I spoke to him at the end of the season as well. He's got the ingredients. He's tough, he’s resilient, he knows what he wants and he knows how to put a team together and they're great values in management.” 

Q: Hull City narrowly avoided relegation. Could you see it coming when they sacked Liam Rosenior in the summer? 

TP: “I was really surprised Liam Rosenior left. He's done absolutely fantastically in France. What a season he's had over there as well. He's done brilliant. 

“When clubs are looking for a new manager, he should be one of the ones that they look at. He's a great kid. I knew him, I knew his dad as well when I was at Bristol City. They're a good family. He's very diligent, he's very organised. 

“He's been a good coach as well, so he's stepped up from coaching to management and there's a difference. I don't know a lot about the Hull City owner. I don't know much about the team, but they dodged the bullet in avoiding relegation. They should be very, very thankful that they did do that.” 

Q: How should Plymouth Argyle go about their bid for an instant Championship return? 

TP: “Miron Muslic came in and he's got them organised. They played a lot more through the pitch quickly and he brought strength through the middle of the team. They become a lot more solid, but always a goal threat with pace up front. 

“I was impressed with the way they actually finished the season. I had six months, seven months down at Plymouth and it's a fantastic area and a fantastic football club and they've done wonders there. The owner has actually turned the football club around. 

“He spent a lot of money on the stadium, on the training facilities. It's a massive area. It's a massive area for that football club. If they get anything going, any momentum at all, the support was fabulous. Fingers crossed, they will bounce back because the football club is a

really good football team. A football club with lovely people down there as well. Really good friends I've kept in touch with.” 

Q: Your thoughts on Cardiff City being relegated to League One? Can they bounce back? 

TP: “I hope Cardiff can bounce back, there's been a real downturn on things there. The chairman has spent hell of a lot of money but because you lose and because things don't go well and because of the appointment of maybe one or two people, it drifts away and everything gets thrown at the chairman and Mehmet Dalman. 

“I've met Mehmet. Mehmet is a really, really lovely person and another person you would hope would be successful. But they have to find a way, they have to find an identity. 

“I don't think they've had an identity for a couple of years. I don't think, from the outside, that the club has had the direction that it's needed. Vincent Tan has put a lot of money into that football club so everything will be pointing at him at the moment and he'll definitely feel the pressure – the appointment of the next manager is going to be massive for them.” 

Q: Nathan Jones called Wrexham a ‘circus’ recently, is it far and does that make Phil Parkinson’s job even more impressive? 

TP: “Wrexham have done fantastic. Irrespective of all the nonsense that's going round the place with the film stars and all that stuff, Phil Parkinson has done a fantastic job as manager. 

“Three promotions on the bench, it's an amazing achievement. Graham Taylor took Watford from the fourth Division to the First Division. John Toshak took Swansea from the Fourth Division to the First, but to get three consecutive promotions is absolutely fantastic. 

“Being a Welsh club, I know it's North Wales, but I still hope to see them succeed.” 

Q: Wrexham have changed captains down the years, is James McClean the right leader to take them to the top flight? 

TP: “Wrexham have got James McClean there, who I had at West Brom, who I've got hell of a lot of respect for. 

“He's not the brightest shilling in the world at times with the reactions that he gives out. But I tell you now, he's a fantastic lad. He's a fantastic family man and he's a good player as well. He is a good player.” 

Q: Can Wrexham reach the Premier League? If so, how long will it take realistically? 

TP: “For Wrexham, the Championship is a step up again, I've been very fortunate that I've managed in all the leagues and got promoted out of all the leagues. So it's a step up again.

“They're going to end up playing against teams who were playing in the Premier League last year. So you're going to have that situation. They're going to come across a little bit more quality. But Phil's been around for a long time and he's played at the top level. 

“He knows the score, so, I'm convinced he'll know what they will need, especially in both boxes, they will need a little bit more strength and quality.” 

Q: How big an asset would Jonny Evans be on a free transfer to Wrexham? 

TP: “If I was Manchester United, I would keep Jonny and stick him in the academy as a coach. At West Brom, I don't think any of the lads will argue, he was by far the best player we had there. 

“You could play him anywhere, could play him in midfield, could play him at full-back. I remember going to Palace one year and Wilfried Zaha was having it off and I pulled Jonny and said, I want you to play full-back today. He said that he couldn’t play full-back. But then he was the best player on the pitch. Zaha didn't have a kick. He was the best player. 

“He suffered with injuries, but you always get cart horses like myself who played who would just plough on, never mind what was going on with you, whether you were injured or not, and then you've got real thoroughbred race horses. 

“Jonny was the thoroughbred and everything had to be right for him to play. We managed to change him a little bit in the end and got him going through a little bit of pain. 

“But as a footballer and as a player, both upstairs and his ability, he's absolutely first class and he's a very fit lad as well. So if Wrexham were going to do it, I'd be saying to them, great signing. 

“But if I was Manchester United, I'd find a place in the academy for him.” 

Q: What have you made of Birmingham City under new ownership and a new regime? 

TP: “We talk about clubs who have had lots of money to spend and haven't spent it well. Birmingham have spent the money and spent it well. 

“Craig Gardner is there and he does a lot of work behind the scenes, Craig. He's a very, very clever boy. There's no flies on Craig. He understands the game. I think he's played a big part behind the scenes in getting them where they are. I've had a couple of chats with him over the season. 

“Now, whether they go out and spend again or not, we'll have to wait and see. The Americans have obviously got a lot of money there. They're talking about spending three billion on redeveloping the city to fit the football club in the town centre, so it'll be interesting, great times for Birmingham.

“They've been on a real downer for a few years and for the Americans to come in and do what they have, they needed to go down really, to have the season that they've had, clear everything, get a positive feel about the place. 

“I think everybody at Birmingham will be looking forward to that challenge next year. 

“Whether they go up again or not, we will see, but I can't see them being in any trouble next year.” 

Q: How well has Noel Hunt done at Reading under the circumstances? 

TP: “Reading are another club that have been struggling financially and struggling with owners and this, that and the other. There's a lot of stuff going around and what Noel Hunt has done really well is that he's managed to wash that away and concentrate on the team. 

“I've watched them in the last couple of weeks or watched highlights, they look very accomplished. They look like a decent team who can win games and he'll be disappointed, they'll be disappointed because Reading is a big club. 

“They've got the infrastructure, having been in the Premier League not many years ago, they've got everything in place. They just need a winning team.” 

Q: Your former team Bristol Rovers were relegated with Inigo Calderon sacked. What’s gone wrong? 

TP: “I've spoken to people about Bristol Rovers. Bristol Rovers is one of those clubs that if someone got hold of it and really, really did it the right way, it could be a fantastic football club. 

“Steve Lansdown has done an unbelievable job at Bristol City. But if you spin the coin and you got someone to go in at Bristol Rovers who understood what was necessary to push the club on, you'd get really, really big crowds there. 

“Obviously it's a great city to live in, it's a great area to be in. Again, they bounced back and forth from the third division to the second division and it was really sad to see them go down. 

“I spent a lot of time in Bristol as a young kid and all. I've still got lots of friends there and most of them are on the Rovers side, not the City side.” 

Q: How does it make you feel watching your old mate Ian Holloway do well at Swindon? 

TP: “Ollie will inspire anyone. He's that type of person, he's that type of fellow. He's infectious. He just gets things done and he gets things going and he's done fantastic. 

“It's lovely to see an old-fashioned manager go in and be successful. Ollie, he's a lot younger than me. But yeah, it's really pleasing.

“It's close to his home, he's close to his family, which is important to Ian. Now I am really, really pleased for him and pleased for the football club.” 

“I first met Ian when I was, I think he was 14 years of age, he was carrying sticks across the park at Eastfield as a schoolboy. He was so bubbly and so enthusiastic and his attitude to life, his parents, his dad and his mum were lovely, lovely people. 

“He's godfather to Anthony, my son. Yeah, he gets a tick from me.” 

Q: Who would you like to see become the next Rangers manager? 

TP: "When I just started playing football, I honestly believed that Rangers, Celtic, a team from Dublin and a team from Belfast, would join the Premier League or join the English League. 

“I honestly thought that there'd be a club from Belfast, a club from Dublin and the two giants from Scotland joining, but it never happened. 

“They're massive clubs, absolutely worldwide clubs And they deserve a lot of respect for the way they have kept things going because it must be difficult up there. 

“Obviously they've had competition over the years, but not great competition. It's usually between Celtic and Rangers so you're talking about the four times they play each other being all or nothing. Most of us from down south think they should be winning the rest of the games. 

“I've spoken to Martin O'Neill, Graeme Souness and other people who've managed up there and they say, it's very, very difficult when the papers have to sell stories and they're the two main story makers. 

“So if you're on top and winning, brilliant, but if you're not, then there's a lot of flack going your way and you have to be big enough and strong enough to take it. 

“But both are great football clubs. I've been to Ibrox, I went up there and watched a game a few years ago and the atmosphere was just unbelievable. I'm saving to go to Celtic back, I want to take my grandson there one day, so I'm waiting for the right time to do it.” 

Q: Were you ever tempted by a move to the Old Firm? 

TP: “I had contact with Rangers. I spoke to people at Rangers. We were flying out to my wife Debbie’s sister in Florida at the end of the season and I had a quick chat with them, but it wasn't right for me at the time, I was well settled in everything else. 

“As I say, I've got tremendous respect for both clubs.” 

Q: Do you think Brendan Rodgers should be in the running for the Spurs job next season?

TP: “It's all about winning up there. I think Brendan Rodgers has brought back the winning culture at Celtic. So everybody's washed away the bad stuff and now I think he's forgiven for leaving 

“Your time comes where you need to change, the club needs to change and you need to change personally. Whether it's this year or next year or the following year, it will come round. It's all according to how Brendan is mentally and what clubs come in for him. 

“He's done a fantastic job up there again. He did a fantastic job at Leicester, he was unlucky at Liverpool in finishing second. They just missed out on winning the title. 

“He's got a great record. Again, he's another manager. He will know what he wants to do.” 

Q: Is your former WBA captain Darren Fletcher a Man Utd or Celtic boss in the making? 

TP: “Could Darren Fletcher be a future Manchester United or Celtic manager? Yeah. Fletch is one of the nicest people I've ever met. He's got a lovely family. I really rate him. 

“He was a fantastic player for me at West Brom. He had a serious illness, which he got over and then ended up playing all the games for us. He was a fabulous captain, fabulous example, trained like he played. He gave everything. 

“He was a great, great example to the younger players. Obviously we brought Jonny Evans in after him. Those two were really, really, really valuable assets to what we achieved at the Albion.” 

Q: What will Kieran McKenna and Ipswich Town need to have learned from their season? 

TP: “I think out of the teams going down, Southampton, Leicester and Ipswich, I think Ipswich are most prepared squad-wise to compete in the Championship. 

“Kieran McKenna is a young manager and he's had great success with two promotions. Now he's just got a relegation against his name but I think he'll be a better manager for it. 

“Out of the three teams that have gone down at the moment, if you were going to say to me which teams you think would bounce back, I'd most probably say they've got the players to do that better at this present moment than Leicester and Southampton.” 

Q. Have you seen the jokes that Mikel Arteta has copied your famous Stoke City side with their set-piece routines? 

TP: “Watching the Inter Milan game against Barcelona, Inter Milan, you know, the Italian managers want to win. They want to find a way to win. Part of that was taking a long throw.

“When we were doing it it became so almost ‘anti-football’ with the likes of Arsene Wenger and people like that, goodness knows what he'd make of it today because every team's throwing the ball in now. 

“I just think it's another way of causing problems in the opponent's box and if you can do that then why not? It's within the rules and set plays now people have started to realise how important they are.” 

Q. Whose set-pieces are better, Stoke City’s or Arsenal’s? 

TP: “We did it all ourselves. It was either myself or the coaches, we didn't have set play coaches or anything like that. But we were very organised in respect of knowing what the opposition were going to do defensively and attacking wise. 

“That was a big part of our play. We would organise things for the team we were facing and we would do things, we would prepare properly, whether it was long throw-ins, whether it was corners, whether it was free kicks around the edge of the box. 

“We'd always do stuff during the week to be prepared for that game then on Saturday.” Q. Could set-pieces win Arsenal major honours? 

TP: “Well, as I've said all the way through, I was paid to get results for my football club and whatever I could do within the rules of the game to get results, I'd do. 

“Mikel Arteta will do the same. If you said, you're going to throw every ball in the final third, you're going to throw it into the box because one or two of them will go in the back of the net and then you'll end up winning the game of football, don’t worry about that he'll be doing it. 

“He won't be thinking well I'm not going to do it because it's not the Arsenal way, he'll do it because he wants to win.” 

Q: How good of a job is Nuno doing at Forest? Is he showing up the big six clubs? 

TP: “When you look at Forest, you look at Brighton, you look at Brentford, you look at Bournemouth, clubs who haven't been in the Premier League for a long time, they've been absolutely fantastic. 

“I really do think there's a change within the game in respect to people and now recognising that recruitment is so, so important. Forest have recruited well, the other clubs that I've mentioned have recruited well and they're small clubs. 

“You look at Bournemouth and have a look at where they were a few years ago and see where they are now, it's all to do with the recruitment. They've got really, really brought in some really top players. 

“A lot of clubs have worked out that you don't have to spend fortunes, you have to be clever.”

Q: What would be your advice to Ruben Amorim to tweak what you’ve seen from how he sets up Manchester United? 

TP: “I'll go back to what is the most important thing for you as a manager of a football club? I think it's looking at the squad of players and then picking a group of players who suit. 

“So you're not saying my way is this way, but it doesn't suit the players. You've got to get a system that suits the players. Eventually, after time, you can change it and you can go the way you want to go. 

“But initially when you go in, I've done it by taking over clubs who have been struggling and I've really worked hard on trying to find a system that suits the players at that time. 

“I've worked really hard at that system. Because it's players who win you games, it's not systems, it's the players. So it's finding a system that suits the players. 

“Over the past few years, people have got very, very posh in the way they want to play and they want to play the right way and they want to play the beautiful game. 

“Me personally, I just wanted to win. I think that everything I tried to do was to enable my team or a group of players to go out and play in a system that suited them and gave us the best chance of winning games.” 

Q: Is it true you almost signed Virgil van Dijk for West Brom? Did you ever come close to signing other gems? 

TP: “Very close. I think we inquired about him and everything else, but we had some really, really good centre-halves there as well. 

“Jonas Olssen, Gareth McAuley was fantastic, Jonny Evans, Craig Dawson, people of that ilk were very, very good for us at that level. But yeah, we did fancy Virgil.” 

Q. Which club should Liam Delap join in the summer? Have you met Liam before through your connections with Rory? What do you think Rory would like Liam to do? 

TP: “Liam was a mascot actually at Stoke for one game I can remember and I've met him. I've been to the house a couple of times and met him. They're a lovely family. Liam's got that determination and that will to win and he gets that from his mother, not his father. Helen would be pleased with that. But no, no, he's done fantastic. 

“It'll be interesting to see which club he picks. That'll be so, so important. I'm sure he'll talk to mum and dad about that. But he's progressed as it's gone along. Obviously he got into the Man City team quite early, added the spell where he scored a few goals, came back out, went on loan, didn't do as well on loan as people thought he was going to do initially. 

“But he certainly is. struck a light at Ipswich and has shown people that he's always in between the posts. If there's balls coming into the box, good strikers are always between

those goal posts and he gets there. And when he's there, he's such a strong lad and his technique is good. 

“He can finish first time or have two touches, his feet are quick enough. I wouldn't like to mark him because he's non-stop. He's a real handful. 

“He's still a very, very young lad and he's playing in the hardest position on the football field. So you've got to be careful with him. But like I say, he's been brought up properly. Mum and Dad are fantastic people and he's very grounded. 

“There's no edge to him whatsoever until he gets on the football field. Then he is very, very competitive. Rory and Helen will look after him. The two of them will make sure that he stays grounded. 

“I just think it's important for this that the next move is really important unless he wants to stay with Ipswich and have another season playing in the Championship and help them get back into the Premier League.” 

Q: Should Leeds keep faith in Daniel Farke or twist? 

TP: “I get a little bit annoyed with this, the gap's getting bigger and financially there has to be a better balance than what there is now. But I still think clubs are going up and they could do a lot better if they realised and recognised what it takes to win at that level. 

“You can't go from the Championship into the Premier League and say, right, we're going to compete against these in a certain way. 

“You have to find a way that suits you. Whether that's nice or not so nice, and whether you break games up and do things, you've got to do things a little bit differently when you're promoted. 

“I don't think clubs have been doing that. Clubs have been going up there and they've been playing very open. Russell Martin did it at Southampton, playing very open football. 

“The teams that he's playing against are better at doing that than Southampton were, I could pick other teams doing it as well. But what you've got to do, you've got to find a way that you're going to win. But there is a major gap. It has to be filled. 

“I think if you're talking about the Premier League, I do get frustrated at times because I think they listen but don't take a lot of notice. I think there's a lot of clubs in the Championship and a lot of clubs further down that do benefit by the money that they're giving them. But that top end, and you've got to keep it competitive. 

“You've got to keep it competitive. This country is the greatest football nation in the world because every league is competitive. But they've got to get the balance right and the balance isn't right yet. The Premier League is not as competitive now as maybe it was a few years ago.

“But I will reiterate, it's for the teams who are getting promoted to be clever and to work a way through it. It's not all to do with money and it's not all to do with what can we get the best players. 

“You've got to find a way and there are ways that you can do it. I'm absolutely convinced. No one will change my mind. But like I say, I think the Premier League have got to be very, very careful in respect to helping the Championship clubs get the opportunity, a chance to get into the Premier League, but also stay in the Premier League. I think that's important.” 

Q: Would you rather manage in today’s game or the one you had your heyday in? 

TP: “The world's changed, the world's gone crazy. It's absolutely ridiculous. You've got people worried about what people are saying on the internet. They don't even know the people who are saying things about them. 

“Who's that person? You don't even know them and it's affecting you and it does affect people. It affects people enormously. So why use it if it affects you? Throw it away. 

“Just don't have it. If you can handle it, fine. And you want to promote yourself. Brilliant. But if you can't handle it, don't use it. 

“The period of management now is shorter, definitely because of social media and other things, everybody wants instant success. No one's prepared to wait and build and get something nice and solid. You lose three or four games, the pressure's on you. 

“I think people react more now to that pressure than what they've ever done before, the owners. So it's different. People, players, society, yeah, everything's dropped away from what I was brought up with without a question of a doubt. 

“I'm not one to say, it was so much better in my day. It was so much better here and so much better there. What I'm saying is that it is different. There's some really, really, really positive things that have been done without a question of a doubt, but there's also some negatives. And I really do think they have to be addressed.” 

Q: If VAR existed in the Premier League in your heyday - would you have had more goals ruled out? 

TP: “I thought VAR would be brilliant and I keep going back to it, Thierry Henry handling the ball against the Republic of Ireland in a World Cup qualifier, that would have been disallowed and rightly so. With those incidents, I thought it'd be brilliant. And what has happened? The referees have made an industry of it and they've complicated the situation. 

“I never ever thought it was going to be like this. Never. But if anybody's going to complicate it, those people are going to complicate it. Why they haven't got professional people sitting in the studio with them and telling them what a professional foul is, what going over the ball is, a handball is, it’s just crazy.

“There's a lot of people out there who have played the game, who watch situations and just cannot believe the decisions that these referees come to. They're watching it 20 times and they're still not getting it the way we would have it as professional footballers and we do it a lot quicker as well. 

“But I don't want to go into that studio, I'm certainly not putting myself up for it.” 

Q: What do you think of Arsene Wenger’s offside plans? 

TP: “Arsene Wenger, he wanted the grass cut shorter because we had long grass. He wanted throw-ins banned because we caused him so many problems. He was a great football manager and everything else, he did brilliant for Arsenal but I’m not sure about his offside idea. 

“Having said that, for me these offside and mistakes have to be clear and obvious, you should be looking at it and going, that's clear and obvious. 

“You shouldn't be going, well, that's a toenail to the left or a toenail to the right. And what about this? And what about that? And how far are we going to go back before we disallow a goal or give a goal or whatever? 

“Like I say, I've just, it's clear and obvious. The VAR people should look at it, maybe in two different showings and go clear and obvious. 

“If it's not clear and obvious, don't give it. It's pretty sensible to me. If they're watching it 15 times, it's not clear and obvious. Just cut it out. 

“You can analyse it afterwards and talk all you want, but if we're doing clear and obvious it's going to take us five or 10 seconds to do it.” 

Q: Footballers have started making moves into boxing, are there any players you coached that you think could make that step? 

TP: “James McClean. Nobody, nobody would want to fight James McClean in the boxing ring. I've seen him at West Brom. He has got the fastest hands of any professional footballer I've seen. He was on the bag and on the gloves. 

“James, without question. Like I say, I've got a lot of time for James. He mishandles himself at times in respect of what he says and what he does. But he's a great, great, great kid. I've got a lot of time for him. 

“I've seen him with the gloves on. You wouldn't want to go in a ring against him. Against Jake Paul? McClean all day long.” 

Quickfire: 

Q: Most underrated player you ever managed? 

Glenn Whelan.

Q: Player that you'd love to have managed? 

George Best! 

Q: Who was the hardest player you ever managed? 

I played with him and obviously was coaching with him. Jimmy Case. When I was at Bournemouth, Jimmy was tough. 

Q: Who was the hardest player you ever came up against? 

Blimey, was a lot, but one who stands out is Billy Whitehurst. 

Q: ‘Could he do it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke’ 

Bukayo Saka? Yes, if he had his gloves on 

Cole Palmer? Yes 

Bruno Fernandes? Yes 

Mohamed Salah? Yes, maybe with gloves on too 

Lamine Yamal? What a fantastic player he is, he could play anywhere. Pele? 100%, 100%. 

Diego Maradona? Again, 100%. 

Lionel Messi? 100% 

Q: ‘Winner Stays On - Hardest Players Tony Has Managed’ 

Danny Higginbotham or Clint Hill? Clint Hill 

Clint Hill or Peter Crouch? Crouchy! 

Peter Crouch or Sean Derry? Blimey, Sean! 

Sean Derry or Adama Traore? Sean 

Sean Derry or Glenn Whelan? Glenn 

Glenn Whelan or Jonas Olsson? Jonas! 

Jonas Olsen or Salomon Rondon? Jonas 

Jonas Olsen or Ryan Shawcross? Jonas again 

Q: ‘Winner Stays On - Set Piece Monsters’ 

Ryan Shawcross or Gabriel? Ryan 

Ryan Shawcross or Virgil van Dijk? Ryan 

Ryan Shawcross or John Terry? John Terry 

John Terry or Jonathan Walters? Terry 

John Terry or Sami Hyypia? Terry 

John Terry or Kenwyne Jones? Kenwyne 

Kenwyne Jones or Chris Wood? Chris Wood 

Chris Wood or Dan Burn? Dan Burn 

Q: ‘Were These Classic Barclaysmen World Class or Not’ 

Morten Gamst Pedersen? No 

Alan Shearer? Yes 

Tim Cahill? No 

Peter Crouch? Yes

Kevin Davies? No 

Yakubu? No 

Hugo Rodallega? No 

Thierry Henry? Yes 

Cristiano Ronaldo? Yes 

Nani? No 

Tugay? No 

Interview April 2024

Former Stoke and West Bromwich Albion manager Tony Pulis sat down to discuss the Championship’s nail-biting promotion and relegation battles, his opinion on VAR and why the ‘majority of football’ wanted Sunderland to struggle this season.

How do you view the promotion race? Who will get promoted automatically?

TP - “I think, after their win over WBA on Saturday, they'll go up. That will give them the impetus they need to finish in one of the automatic promotion positions.

Albeit if Southampton play like Albion did, then they will beat Leicester. There's no doubt about that. 

“The managers fighting for promotion or relegation at this time of the season have got make sure they manage themselves and control their emotions first and foremost. The ones that can do that best will succeed. 

“I really think that coping with this is period of the season is why managers get paid the money they do.”

What’s caused a drop-off in form from Leeds United?

TP - “I've been very surprised that Leeds dropped off, they've had a poor run of results and it shocked me.

“It's going to be interesting to see how Daniel Farke and those players react. The expectation at Leeds with those supporters is massive and you've got to have a group of players that can play under that type of pressure if you want to win promotion.

“Whether Daniel thinks he's got that type of player to perform under pressure, I don't know. 

It might be a case where the players have taken a backwards step because the pressure has got to them.”

Are Ipswich Town one of the best-promoted clubs in Championship history?

TP - “No, they're not. You had Swansea under John Toshack, Wimbledon were great under Dave Bassett, Watford went through the leagues under Graham Taylor.

“Kieran McKenna has done a great job at Ipswich but there are a lot of other managers who have done it a lot better.

“He has done a fabulous job, mind you. They've got new owners who are backing McKenna and signing Kieffer Moore must've cost good money despite only being on loan. Most of the EFL Championship would have wanted him!

“Mark Ashton is a good lad, too, I know Mark. Everyone at the football club has pulled in the right direction.

“It's a fabulous club both they and Norwich City are so well supported.”

Who do you think will make the play-offs? WBA, Norwich, Hull, Middlesbrough and Coventry in the running…

TP - “Norwich have done enough, it will be Norwich, meaning the likes of Hull City and Middlesbrough will miss out. I've liked the fact that Norwich City gave David Wagner time to turn things around. 

“The time they're given now isn't long enough. I remember speaking to an experienced manager who said you need the first year to assess what's going on, the second year to implement the changes needed and you must be successful in the third year you'll get the sack. That was several years ago, too, and things are just getting worse.

“That's the way the world is with things like social media, Chairmen need to be more trustworthy and diligent than some of them are.”

Should Liam Rosenior be under pressure if Hull fail to reach the play-offs?

TP - “Liam Rosenior has done a fabulous job, but so has Acun Ilıcalı in terms of backing him. I think they'll just miss out this year, though, so I hope they've got a good relationship.

“I think they'll be back next year, after adding one or two others. I hope Rosenior will be given an even better opportunity to get them up next year. 

“But he will be under pressure next season given the money that they've spent. 

I do think he's a top young manager. He's a little bit inexperienced but will be learning as he goes along.”

As such an experienced football man, what have you made of Sunderland’s operations? From Tony Mowbray to Michael Beale and now a caretaker…

TP - “There's a lot of people behind the scenes who aren't football people and they make unbelievably bad decisions.

“What the hell were they up to getting rid of Tony Mowbray? He's a staunch football man who knows how to build a winning team. When they sacked him, the majority of football wanted Sunderland to struggle because Tony Mowbray did not deserve it.

“The biggest mistake owners make is not appointing an experienced man behind the scenes. If Sunderland had an experienced football manager or someone who had been in the game for a long time behind the scenes, they would have told Kyril Louis-Dreyfus that was an absolutely ridiculous decision to get rid of Tony Mowbray.”

How good in your opinion is Jack Clarke?

TP - “In a football team, there are certain things that you need to have in order to be successful. One of those things is a player that will take defenders on because defences are so well organised, so you need someone to create space and open doors. Jack Clarke is one of those players.

“I watched him at Leeds and I think he's now more mature and is a lot stronger. He'll have a very good future but I don't know if Sunderland will want to sell him to a Premier League team this summer. I don't see why he can't play in the Premier League as he's a promising and exciting player.”

What have you made of Plymouth’s season? Started brightly but ended badly for Ian Foster…

TP - “I had a great time at Plymouth, I'll go back next year hopefully.  The chairman has done a great job and they were very unfortunate to lose Steven Schumacher as everything was balanced quite well.

“They're going to have to pull up some trees to stay up, but their supporters are absolutely magnificent. They took two-and-a-half thousand to Stoke on Saturday.

“I remember my first game managing them, it was against Southampton in the Championship when Harry Redknapp was managing them. About three or four thousand Plymouth fans filled the whole end behind the goal and it was an eye-opener for me. Dave Kemp encouraged me to join the club there as I didn't know much about them.

“I will be really disappointed if they get relegated because the chairman has invested good money and the local people around the club are good people.”

Have Birmingham City got carried away with their new stadium plans? They’re not safe yet. 

TP - “They've got rich owners there now and it sounds as if they want to be progressive. However, you can have the best stadium in the world but if your team is not winning matches, you're not going to fill it. 

“Tom Brady and the owners' priority has to be staying up first. After staying up, they need to look at strengthening the team on the pitch so they can stabilise in the Championship.

“Talk of building stadiums and doing this or that is good, and I'm sure the supporters are excited, but if you ask the majority of supporters will want the team to be sorted out before anything else.”

Another of your former clubs in Sheffield Wednesday down there…

TP - “They've brought in quite a few players but the Chairman will get no credit despite stumping up the money.

“Danny Rohl is absolutely fantastic too, he's done really well. Without a doubt, he'd be one of the choices for manager of the year if he kept them up.

“Hillsborough was like a ghost town when I managed them but look at the energy their supporters give them. It's one of the best-supported teams in this country. 

“Albion will have a very tough game against on them Saturday.”

Who do you think will get relegated from the Championship?

TP - “It will be a miracle if Huddersfield stay up. They can still do it but I would be amazed. That final spot could be between three or four teams, including Sheffield Wednesday, Plymouth, Blackburn and QPR. 

“I think Stoke have done enough to survive.”

Reaction to Portsmouth winning promotion to the Championship? 

TP - “I'm delighted for Pompey, I really enjoyed being there and the supporters are fantastic. 

“You drive into the City and you don't see anything else other than blue shirts! It's a special area, they are so proud to be from Portsmouth. 

“I enjoyed that place. John Mousinho has done a fantastic job but you shouldn't forget the backroom staff there, too. He's got a massive challenge on his hands next year, though, they need to look at Ipswich Town and try to and replicate what have done if possible.”

How tricky is it to work with problematic ownership? Do you admire the jobs Shaun Maloney and Ruben Selles have done at Wigan and Reading? 

TP - “My advice to managers of those clubs is to focus on winning games on a Saturday. If you get too wrapped up in stuff going on behind the scenes, it can distract you from winning matches and that's what matters most for the fans, the team and the town.

“I understand it's hard as cuts to the team affect their position but whatever hand you're dealt with, you've got to find a way to win on Saturday because you won't stay in a job if not, regardless of what's going on upstairs. 

“Those two lads deserve a hell of a lot of credit for the jobs that they have done, regardless of how they have done it. Forget style, whether it's playing out from the back or going long from the goalkeeper, management is about finding a way to win. 

“It's great for those football clubs but will it improve? I really don't know.”

How have Stoke gone from a top-half Premier League finish to relegation battles in the Championship?

TP - “Stoke have one of the best ownership groups in English football. Steven will get the chance to be successful, as all the managers before him had. None of them come out of the club criticising the owners. 

“The problem has been behind the scenes regarding their recruitment. It's not always about signing the best players, it's about building a strong team and the best players aren't always included in the most successful teams. 

“I've spoken to Jonathan Walters and I've got a lot of respect for him. He's a good example of what Stoke needs to recruit as we had Jon or Mamady Sidibe behind Ricardo Fuller, whose strength was not running around! 

“You need to sign players that suit the team as Jon and Mama were both unselfish and would never stop working.”

What have you made of Wrexham's progress? How high can they go?

TP - “The cameras and documentary would not suit me!

“Steve Parkinson and Steve Parkin have done brilliantly, they've rode the success and made the most of everything that's going on around the club.

“Next season will be a different challenge, though, and the investment is very important for them at this stage but they've done fantastically. Having a club in North Wales doing well is magnificent for the country.

Did you manage to rattle Arsene Wenger or get in his head? Why did he always appear wound up by Stoke?

TP - “We kept beating them and it wasn't meant to happen! 

“When they came to Stoke, we seemed to have their number. They didn't enjoy it and we felt that when they made a couple of comments which wound people in Stoke up.

“When we received the fixture list, it was one of those games that we would always look forward to and the atmosphere would be fantastic.

“Although I have to say, Arsene Wenger must be looked upon as one of the greatest Arsenal managers in lots of ways.”

Can you shed any light on the incident with James Beattie? A few former pros have discussed this since retiring. 

TP - “What I will say about James Beattie is the fact that he kept us up alongside Matthew Etherington. They were the difference between finishing in the bottom four and finishing in mid-table.” 

Peter Crouch has previously gone on board to joke that Charlie Adam was somewhat of a teacher's pet at Stoke and was 'parched.' What's your reaction to this?

TP - “Peter Crouch was one of the only players I struggled to sign as he was 28 or 29 and wanted a four-year contract. Tottenham were also going to help us get the wages we wanted him to be on at Stoke. 

“Peter Coates rang me, though, and said that people were concerned about the return we would get from him. But I guaranteed that he would keep us in the Premier League and, therefore, that would be worth hundreds of millions. Peter went 'Tony, that's all I need to know!'

“Peter is what you see he is, a fantastic character and human being. He had been big-time previously having played for England and Tottenham, but he mixed in with our lads brilliantly and took us to another level.

“My wife watches the podcast more than I do but he and Abbey Clancey are brilliant, like chalk and cheese but great value!”

Does he think he'd be able to manage his Stoke side in today's game, or are referees too soft?

TP - “When VAR was brought in, it was for clear and obvious mistakes. It's ridiculous what they're doing as someone needs to knock on the door and tell referees 'It's not about toenails or the width of someone's nose!' They're cancelling goals for the sake of it.”

How do you look back on your time at WBA? You inherited a mess and the club has not finished higher since your departure. 

TP - "I enjoyed my time at West Brom. The group of players was probably the most difficult that I initially inherited. We were in a right mess, there was no direction as certain people were bringing players in that didn't suit Alan Irvine at the time.

“It was like going into a shop, buying yellow trousers and a pink tie but trying to convince people it works. It doesn't. That first year was really thought and if it wasn't for Saido Berahino's goals, we could have gone down. He came up with some great goals for us. 

“Jeremy Peace was always protective of Albion and knew how to play his cards. The first meeting we had, he said 'I will not interfere, just get on with it. I will do what I can to help.' After bad results, he'd ring up to say I was still trying to do the right things. He also had Mark Jenkins and Richard Garlick behind him who were solid people.

“It's a really good football club”

How do you view the career of Saido Berahino? He was ahead of Harry Kane in the England team at one point…

TP - “Saido was a complicated character. Everybody thought he had a lot of bravado but he was very insecure. I think the situation with Tottenham, where it looked like he would go but it broke down, really broke him in a number of respects. 

“He then didn't do a pre-season, he messed around and was badly advised. Albion had a chairman in Jeremy Peace that wouldn't give a damn about anything else other than West Bromwich Albion and there were certain things that had to be in place if Saido was to leave and they weren't.

“He was a very inexperienced boy, who had a lot of people in his ear advising him to do certain things. He never got back to the level he was at and it's sad because he had no mentors and, although I got on well with him, he probably saw me as working on behalf of Jeremy Peace. 

By the time he realised the Tottenham move was off, he'd lost his fitness, sharpness and he dropped off a gear or two mentally. He was extraordinary for us over the Christmas I joined and I thought he was a really nice lad. 

“If he had his time again, he would go about it differently. 

Having been at most games during a really enjoyable 2016/17 campaign, what went wrong the following year? 

TP - “I was devastated when he didn't finish eighth on the last day in 2017. We had a good team, though, with a good group of players who worked together and played smashing football.

“We added Chadli who was a top player, but the problem with him was, again, people in his ear telling him he could make more money elsewhere after receiving other offers. He didn't come to pre-season in Austria and lost his way. 

“I enjoyed being at Albion. A lot of people didn't like Jeremy Peace but him, Mark Jenkins, and Richard Garlick made me feel very comfortable. Looking back at my management career, as soon as negativity with the people above me creeps in, I drop off.

“I liked John Williams when he came in, he was a very likeable man who was honest and hard-working. But we lost Mark Jenkins and Richard Garlick that summer in 2017 and I also lost David Kemp who went to America. I lost that little bit of energy that I needed as a manager to get the best results possible. 

“They should have given Gary Megson the job. He knew exactly what the team was about. He had done pre-season with me so knew the characters, the fans loved him and he got two great results at Tottenham and Newcastle, so I said to John Williams 'Give him the job' but they never took any notice.

“They then made a very poor decision (Giving Pardew the job over Megson). It summed up the way things were behind the scenes. Whether they thought I was saying it because Gary is my mate, I don't know, but I was saying it for the football club's best interest.

“I really really, enjoyed my time at Albion, even if I got a bit of stick from supporters at times!”

What was your experience of Mr Lai?

TP - “I have to say, Mr Lai was really good with me despite the communication barrier. I always thought he was doing the right thing for Albion. 

“I don't know how things played out with John Williams and Mr Lai afterwards, but I do think they would consider it a mistake not to give Gary Megson the job.”

Thoughts on the current team and Carlos Corberan? 

TP - “I think Carlos Corberan did a great job at Huddersfield and is a bit like Marcelo Bielsa. He's very dedicated to his job and most likely doesn't think about anything other than winning the next game on a Saturday or Tuesday.

“I've met him a couple of times and think he's an honest and genuine lad, who's done a fabulous job at the club.

“They'll finish in the top six for sure and then it's a toss of a coin whether they go up or not.”