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José Kléberson, the assistant coach of New York City FC and former Brazilian international, has achieved great success in football including a couple of seasons at Manchester United in the English Premier League. The veteran midfielder was part of Brazil's triumphant 2002 FIFA World Cup squad and appeared 32 times for his beloved nation over the course of a distinguished career.
Q. After winning the Carabao Cup, do you expect Man Utd to win the Premier League within a year or two?
There's a chance Man Utd could win the league within a season or two, especially if they keep their consistency. With that cup win, it gives the players and the team more juice. It also gives the manager and fans more confidence. It's been a long time since we've had trophies in our hands, and now I think United are going to have more confidence to compete on a bigger level to get closer to the Premier League. Maybe not this year but next year, I think it's a lot closer than before.
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Q. Is this the best Man Utd side, and manager, you have seen since the Sir Alex Ferguson era?
When you're not winning matches and not winning trophies, it's so difficult to bring in new players and a new coach. But the structure and culture Man Utd have now is totally different to years ago. That's why the results are starting to come in, they have big names in the changing room with winning players like Casemiro. With this structure, Man Utd are much better than they were years ago.
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Q. Casemiro has had a huge impact on Man Utd. Is he the best midfielder they have had since Paul Scholes and Roy Keane?
Casemiro is different to Paul Scholes and Roy Keane, he's had a different journey to them. Those guys won so many trophies and played so many games, but Casemiro has just arrived and he’s done an amazing job on and off the field. He needs time if he is to be considered up there with Keane and Scholes, they did it for a long period. We need to see how he progresses but we can clearly see the change that he's brought to the club.
Q. Following the success of Casemiro, are there any other Brazilian players you’d like to see at Man Utd?
I'd really like to see Richarlison play for Man Utd. He's the kind of striker that could help United a lot. Especially with teams pressing, he can do a low block, he can put pressure on the centre-back and he can get inside the box. He's played in the Premier League for many years, he understands the rules and he's a really hard-working player. As Man Utd get more structure and consistency, winning more games, I think Richarlison is a player who could do a lot for the club.
Q. Richarlison has had a slow start to life at Tottenham. Do you think Erik ten Tag would get the best from him?
Editorial credit: kivnl / Shutterstock.com
When Richarlison was at Everton, I think he should have gone to Manchester United instead of Tottenham. It could have been different. Now he doesn't play much and he doesn't get many opportunities. He's competing with guys at Tottenham who are amazing players. He's on the bench, but he's competing with these big players.
As a club, sometimes you need to take a risk because he's not a bad player, he's an amazing player. He plays for Brazil's national team, he just needs game time and some confidence from the coach and the team. I believe he could easily do an amazing job for United.
Q. What’s your prediction for the Liverpool vs Man Utd game on Sunday?
It's so difficult to predict Liverpool vs Man Utd. Liverpool are in bad form, so I'd say Man Utd have a good chance to win that game but with Liverpool in that situation, it means you never know how the top players are going to perform. To have history behind it too, it's so different. Manchester United have just won a trophy too. I can’t pick a winner, it's so difficult.
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Q. What was it like experiencing English atmospheres for the first time?
Everything was new for me in England, I didn't know a lot about English football during that time. Playing in the Premier League, playing at these amazing stadiums that the Premier League has, the fans, it's so different to Brazil.
I felt nervous in the beginning as a normal player, but day by day, I started to understand how the league works and how the players behave. But I really liked the early games. In Brazil, you'd just play later at night. I remember games in the Premier League at 12pm and 2pm, rarely games later on in the day, but I had to adapt to that. I used to play games in Brazil during the week at 9.45pm, and then I'd come to England and play much earlier.
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Q. According to Eric Djemba-Djemba, Roy Keane criticised you in the dressing room in one of your first games. What was it like dealing with that?
It’s true Roy Keane called me out in the dressing room in one of my first games. I saw the interview with Eric Djemba-Djemba, where he says Keane called me out. But my English at that time was horrible, I couldn't understand anything. I tried to understand what Keane said, and I didn't have anything to protect myself and say something. I was thinking, ‘go win a World Cup before talking to me’.
But I didn't have any English to argue back. It's kind of funny now because I understand what Roy Keane did at the club, the passion he has, the winning player inside him. He’ll push you and you need players like that.
United had some big players like Gary Neville, Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes at that point too, they were really leading the team. Keane on the field was really good but those two on the field also acted like captains, and were a big part of the club.
Editorial credit: Influential Photography / Shutterstock.com
Q. According to reports, you came close to joining Leeds and Celtic. Is that true?
My agent at the time came to me and told me about Celtic and Leeds. For Leeds, the president at Athletico Paranaense told me about Leeds but I'd already agreed with United two months before.
For Celtic, I remember reading a story about how they wanted to sign me but there was nothing on paper and I didn’t hear anything from Athletico Paranaense. I don't know if it was true or not but when I was training, I remember my agent saying there was an opportunity to join Celtic, a club in Scotland. But the bigger interest was Leeds and Man United.

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Q. As a midfielder yourself, do you think Declan Rice and Jude Bellingham are players Man Utd should break their transfer record for?
Jude Bellingham and Declan Rice are big players. Bellingham had an amazing World Cup, I remember commentating on some England games in Brazil, I really enjoyed seeing that kid play. He's really dynamic, he's really good in transition. When he drives the ball through the traffic, he's really good and his arrival in the box is really good, he's a really good technical player.

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I don't know how he's going to fit in at United now because for the last game, Fred was playing in the middle with Casemiro and it's a different style of playing. It's good for the coach to have a different structure to play, but is he going to arrive and play?
He's not going to wait for the opportunity. I don't know how the coach is going to be thinking about the Champions League next year or the fight for the title. They need some players like Bellingham and Rice that can play good football for the team and for a long long time.
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Q. Antony has been criticised for his showboating since he joined Man Utd. Is that fair?
I think Antony has been unfairly criticised for his showboating. Some players in Brazil have their own style, and Antony has played that style for years. So when a club in Europe, Ajax, took a chance on him, he wanted to keep doing that stuff. But as soon as you get to the club and it has a different philosophy, you understand how the team play, they will start to change.
I remember Antony at the beginning, the coach from Man Utd wanted him to hold the ball less, play one-two touch, and then he started changing. It happened with Cristiano Ronaldo, he had the ball and he was dribbling and dribbling, but Sir Alex Ferguson worked with him to play for the team and attack the space, creating opportunities. It’s normal for players of that quality, criticism is normal, he has to be ready for that to play for Man Utd. People are going to be in your face.
Q. You shone for Brazil at the 2002 World Cup, but that was the last time your country has lifted the trophy. Why haven’t they won it since?
Brazil not winning a World Cup since 2002 is a generational thing. In 2002, we were so proud to be from a generation of players from the street, who played in the street. We played with freedom, going onto the field and then enjoying it. We had good structure, especially at the back, with Luis Felipe Scolari in charge. But we also had individual quality. Players like Rivaldo and Ronaldo could decide games.
Things have changed now, we don’t see kids playing in the streets as much now. We don’t see as much freestyle. Young kids played for freedom, but now the culture is different. We have too much of a coaching structure behind the kids, they have a lot of pressure from the parents, coaches and friends. Now they put a lot of money behind them, and those things kill the joy. They start to feel pressure so much sooner. That’s not the way to do things.
PeeJay, CC BY-SA 3.0 , via Wikimedia Commons
The generation for 2002 really played with a smile on their faces. I love to play football, I would die for football because I really enjoyed it. For the generation now, it’s different.
We had a great squad for the 2022 World Cup, but I don’t think they lost the game on the field. All due respect to Croatia, Brazil had amazing players. As Brazilians, we know we can’t lose that game. We complained about the goal in extra-time, but we had 90 minutes for the game. Things like preparation are important.
But 2002 was the last generation we had where players played with freedom and joy. The generation now want structure, based on what the coach and team needs. So we struggled.
Q. During the 2002 World Cup, Rivaldo was famously accused of clutching his face when the ball struck his body, resulting in a red card for Hakan Unsal. If VAR was in use then, do you think that decision would have been reversed?
If VAR had been in use during the 2002 World Cup, I 100% think the outcome of Hakan Unsal’s red card against Rivaldo would have been different.
I’m happy we now have VAR, now we watch games and see so many things happen on the field. I was watching Arsenal play last weekend and when the ball was crossed into the box, I think he was holding the hand of the goalkeeper, and that’s something the referee and us can’t see. VAR can help. VAR helps on many different levels, for fans and coaches too.
VAR would make World Cups from history so different. For example with Rivaldo, the referee showed Unsal a red card when the ball didn’t hit his face. There was also a penalty for Brazil when Luizao was outside the box, and VAR would have given a free kick. There are many examples of where VAR would have felt.
Granada, CC BY-SA 4.0 , via Wikimedia Commons
Q. How did Brazil’s players, at the time, feel about the Rivaldo incident?
We weren’t close enough to the Rivaldo incident, it was only when we got to the hotel when we saw the replays. People complain about Neymar going down to much, but we as Brazilians have an identity to create chances for us. Get inside the box, and if the guys push you, go to ground to get a foul. We didn’t have VAR at the time, we learned that on the street. It’s the referee’s decision, and they do what they need to do, but because we bring a lot of things from the street, where we played with friends, we go professional and we act the same. That was that generation, now players have to be more concerned with that kind of thing.

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Q. What was it like sharing a dressing room with Ronaldinho? Other players say he loved a party!
Ronaldinho loved a party! We had a good relationship at that time, although I don’t remember him as too much of a party guy in 2002. He wanted to go out at night like a normal person, but he was Ronaldinho so he would be followed by lots of people.
Having Ronaldinho in the dressing room was amazing. Every game I played with him, he would always have the same face: smiling, juggling with the ball, having fun with so much confidence. He would interact with everyone. It was like, for Ronaldinho, he was thinking ‘what time will the party start on the field?’ Then he would put in an amazing performance. If I had 10% of that my career would have been so different!
Q. You’ve played with Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldo (R9) and Ronaldinho. If you had to rank them, what order would they be in?
Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldo R9 and Ronaldinho had amazing levels. But they are all so different from each other. Cristiano’s work-rate was amazing, he knew his body and his qualities, I need to rest, I need focus, I need patience to get to where I want, and he did that. Goals and titles.
Ronaldinho didn’t really prepare for games, he just said okay, give me the ball and I will do my thing. Get on the field and do my best, with freedom. He made opposition fans applaud him, that’s how good he was.
In my opinion, Ronaldo R9 was better than Cristiano and Ronaldinho. He was unbelievable, so fast, his quality, his movement. Defenders were scared of him. People respect him a lot. When games were done, we would always see opposition players going straight to him, he was thought of as a King. He has something other players don’t have. To play the level he did, despite injuries, was amazing.
Q. Without injuries, do you think Ronaldo R9 would have gone on to have a career as good as, if not better, than Cristiano and Lionel Messi?
Without injuries, I think Ronaldo R9 would have gone on to score as many goals as Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi. The way Messi and Ronaldo play is completely different. The technology players have now is amazing, with things like GPS, recovery. At that time, he didn’t have that, it was so different. Today players get injuries and the treatment is so good, they’re back on the field in three weeks. At that time it took longer to come back. And players can think for themselves more.
Messi and Ronaldo were breaking each other’s records, but Ronaldo R9 was the first one, they broke his records.
Q. Would you put Ronaldo R9 above Lionel Messi?
I would 100% put Ronaldo R9 above Lionel Messi. Messi is amazing, he is separate from the others in terms of the quality he has. But Ronaldo R9 was just awesome. In football today, I don’t know if he’d have the same career he did decades ago, because there’s so much structure now. But I would pick Ronaldo R9 over Messi.
Q. Marcus Rashford is in electric form at the moment. Would you put him in the conversation with Vinicius Jr and Neymar?
I love Marcus Rashford, he’s a great player. Even when he was having tough moments, not playing as much, I always rated him. I never met him but I can see he’s a really humble guy, a good person and a great player.
But compared to Neymar and Vinicius Jr, I think it’s not close enough yet. If he continues the way he is, he’ll get close. Vinicius Jr and Neymar have such different styles. But these three are amazing. Vinicius Jr was amazing in the Champions League. He has all of Brazil behind him. Even though he’s getting grief from fans in Spain, he’s playing at an amazing level.
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