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Gareth Barry discusses Aston Villa’s rise under Unai Emery, England’s midfield dilemmas, and his Premier League legacy in a wide-ranging OLBG exclusive. The Premier League’s record appearance holder also reflects on his time at Man City, Everton’s new era, and England’s World Cup hopes under Thomas Tuchel.
Q: So we'll start with the club you made the most appearances for and who had a really exciting weekend, Aston Villa. What a season they are having. Do you fancy them as title contenders?
Before the weekend, I must admit, I wouldn't have said they were capable of pushing probably the top two, but they were more than capable of competing for those top four places. But that was a statement win, I think, and the performance to go with it.
To beat Arsenal, who've been on a run they have, and to create the chances they did was an incredible performance. For me, yes, if they can keep their players fit, there's no reason why this season they can’t. I don't think there's anyone standing out that he's going to run away with it now. Arsenal were the obvious ones that could have done it with that result but that just throws the whole league back open so really excited for Aston Villa and their fans and what a job that Emery is doing with that club.
Aston Villa back in the title mix
Premier League Winners Betting Odds
These are the current best prices for the Premier League available with betting sites. Odds will change live.
| Selection | Probability | Odds | |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Liverpool | 36.4% | 2.75 |
| 2 | Arsenal | 36.4% | 2.75 |
| 3 | Man City | 18.2% | 5.50 |
| 4 | Chelsea | 11.1% | 9.00 |
| 5 | Tottenham | 3.8% | 26.00 |
Q: Unai Emery absolutely worked wonders since his appointment. Where do you think he ranks among the best Premier League managers?
In terms of the Premier League, he's got to be up there in the top one or two. No manager has qualified for the Champions League like he did.
The one thing thrown against him will be, can he win a trophy? So if they are able to do that under his reign, then for me he's going to be number one without a question.
The way he came in, where the club was after Steven Gerrard left, turned it around unbelievable without too much help in terms of funds and transfers. He's used a lot of the similar players that were already there, added bits and bobs, but the way he's done it and held the club together is a remarkable job and could well go down as one of the best managers ever.
Emery deserves elite manager status
Q: One of the standout players this season Morgan Rogers he's been shining considerably. Do you think he should be England's number 10 over Jude Bellingham?
I think at the moment, the way the season's going, he's definitely been the more consistent performer out of the two. He's got the shirt as well at the moment, so it's probably Morgan's to give away. If he can finish the season strongly, I think that position could be Morgan's.
It's a long way to go before the World Cup. A lot can happen, but it's not a case of competing with Jude. I still think there's a position in the midfield that they can play together. But in terms of that number 10, he's certainly the one I enjoy watching.
He's a bit different to the rest. He carries the ball from deep right upfield a lot quicker, a lot smoother than the other players and his vision to find that pass to the number nine is second to none. So for me, Morgan, yeah, he's definitely in there with a shout and it could be his position for the World Cup.
Morgan Rogers has the edge for England
Q: Speaking of special Aston Villa sides, I just wanted to mention a little about your side under Martin O'Neill in the years you were pushing for Champions League places. What do you think made that group in particular so special?
The quality of players was definitely there when I look back now and think of that squad. The midfield and forward line we had… you look at James Milner, myself, Stelian Petrov, Ashley Young, Gabi Agbonlahor, John Carew. That forward six, looking back now, was a great midfield and forward line. We had good defenders as well with Mellberg, Laursen, Brad Friedel in goal, we're talking about real good Premier League players.
So the squad was there and the team spirit Martin O'Neill provided was great for our group of players. But, you know, looking back at that period, there was such a stronghold with the top four. The Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, they were called the top four for a reason for a long period of time, the big four. It was just so tough to break in. We came so close on many, many seasons and we could beat any of them on our day but the consistency they had there, they had a strong hold on it so was real tough to break in.
Villa’s golden era couldn’t crack top four
Q: What do you think that side missed in terms of challenging for those titles with the big four?
The players I mentioned really, we did have a great side, the lads coming on, we signed Hesky to try and break us through into that top four. But I think injuries to players like Martin Laursen, he was such a good and such a big player for Aston Villa back then and he was just unable to stay fit for long periods of time.
So big players like that missing ultimately cost us probably points that would have possibly pushed us closer to breaking in. Yeah, it was a great three years to be playing under Martin O'Neil there. Really enjoyable part of my career.
Laursen's absence cost Villa dearly
Q: You and James Milner played together at Villa. Milner is closing in on your all-time Premier League record. How do you feel about that?
Upset!
No, I'm really proud of the games I played. Having played with James at Villa, Man City and England, and he's a good friend, I know how hard he's worked and he's left no stone unturned.
He is the ultimate professional, so if James is to pass it, it's going to someone that fully deserves it because he's getting every ounce out of the career that he deserves because he's putting the maximum effort in. Now with that, he's got quality as well. That's not to be underrated.
Milner’s professionalism praised by Barry
Q: At the moment, you still hold that record. You've seen the highest number of Premier League appearances. What are some of your fondest memories playing football?
Yeah, I think I've always been proud of my debuts when I made my debut in 98 for Villa. That's the dream to represent a club in the Premier League. And when I signed for Aston Villa, I couldn't wait to try and get in the first team and still the most nervous I've ever been making my debut. And that was a proud moment. Going on then to captain Aston Villa, a team I spent a lot of time with, that was a proud moment to wear the armband for a few years.
And then… I just think then going on to Man City, you can't beat winning trophies. That is what football is about. So having achieved that to win the FA Cup and the Premier League, was coming to the end of my 20s really. So I'm looking, thinking, am I ever going to win a trophy? So there's a bit of relief and there were special moments. And then to be involved in the Aguero game, to win the title, that will go down in history itself. So all my debuts at my clubs were special moments. I enjoy playing for all my clubs, so they're there as well.
Barry reflects on his proudest football moments
Q: You joined City just after Sheikh Mansour had just taken over. Did you have any idea how big that club would become?
Looking back where they are now, probably not.
When I spoke to the club when I was thinking about signing, they were mentioning the players and where they wanted to go. They sold it to me as sort of getting on this fast moving train and if I didn't, I might regret it, that sort of sales pitch to me. They mentioned some of the players they were looking to sign. So I knew that if they did get these players, they could go on to achieve what they ultimately did in the end.
For me at time, it was still a tiny bit of a gamble. I was leaving a club where I was captain to join a club that Villa had finished higher ultimately. So there were things thrown at me, but I had a lot of faith in the people I was speaking to at Man City and they were proven right. And luckily for me, it was a great decision to join Man City. I had four great years there.
Barry on the rise of Manchester City
Q: And on the current City side, the team have struggled a bit recently with the absence of Rodri in the last few years. What are your thoughts on what makes it so hard to fill that holding midfield spot in Pep's team?
I just think that position in world football has now become probably one of the most important roles in the pitch. Ultimately you're coming on and you're linking the defence to the midfield and also you're getting asked to chip in with goals now. Look at Rodri and players like that, they're coming up with the goals too.
But yes, you're pretty much the manager on the pitch.
When I was playing it, so much of the tactics are put through you because you're in that position where you are available to speak to the defence midfield and the attack. You're starting moves, you're breaking up moves. So there is a lot of impetus on that position and you've seen it when big players like Rodri are out the team that the records are there to show that these players are missed.
So the proof is in the pudding, if you like, that it's so important these players can try and stay fit. That's what Man City are slightly missing at the minute, in a season where they're probably in transition, they look at the table at the minute and still only two points behind. So Pep will be quietly happy, I should imagine, because there's not much noise about them winning the title, yet they're still there.
Holding midfield now a key tactical role
Q: As Liverpool are currently proving, it's incredibly difficult for teams to retain the Premier League title. What was Mancini's message to you and the squad on returning for pre-season in 2012? Were there any special motivational tricks he tried?
Not too much really, didn't change too much. Looking back, I think the trick we missed was probably improving the team.
The signings we made that summer, I think that was key to bring players in that are going to improve the team. Looking back, there were players that came in, good players that were probably just squad players, so there wasn't that extra push the players need to keep them on their toes, keep the standards high enough to win the league again. Ultimately, that next year we just finished up a little bit short.
Looking back, it probably was there for the taking again to win. But yeah, I'd say that signings made that summer probably let us down to push us again to the next level.
Lack of fresh faces cost City back-to-back titles
Q: How did you find the grind of another 38 game season after the euphoria of winning the league in that way? Was it difficult to motivate yourself to go again?
No, I don't think so. That summer was the Euros, so a lot of the lads had gone away and played in the Euros. I was injured that summer, so I missed the tournament. You know, personally, I was ready to go again. But you can tell sometimes after the tournament years, the players come back after a big season the year before, playing loads of games in Europe, the energy levels aren't quite there and it sometimes takes a while to pick up.
Maybe there was a hangover with stuff like that, but it's such a skill for a manager to be able to get a group again to go and win another trophy, another league title back to back, and that's why it's so hard and probably hasn't been done that much in the past.
The hidden toll of tournament summers
Q: And did you get the sense when you returned from winning the league that the opposition treated you any differently? Throwing in tackles with a bit more crunch?
Yes, 100%. All the hype, all the media attention about being champions, it's there every game. You can feel it when you're going out onto the pitch. The opposition are looking at the team to be just that extra bit more, even if it's two or three more percent, that can make a difference.
Like you say, the tackles are coming in slightly harder, things like that. And they want to beat the champions. Ultimately, it creates headlines and players want to be on the right side of that. So there's certainly a sense of that.
That's why when you are champions, you do need that different mindset. You need a strong group to stay together. But ultimately, I think you need to improve the team and the squad with the right signings to keep you pushing.
Opposition raised their game against us
Q: You were back at Goodison Park for the final game last season and you played at the Legends match at the Hill Dickinson Stadium. How big do you think the move to the waterfront could be for Everton? What are your thoughts on the new stadium? And do you think having David Moyes back in charge is a good thing for this moment in the club's history?
Yeah, listen, Goodison Park was an amazing stadium to play in. It's sad to have to leave them sort of stadiums because there's so much history with them. But I think everyone associated with Everton knew going forward you needed to leave. You look at the other stadiums, the corporate, Everton had 12 boxes, some of them have over 100. So the revenue they're losing, it had to be done.
But yeah, for me, they had to get the new stadium right to try and create that atmosphere again because Everton needed Goodison Park in the last two or three years to keep them avoiding relegation. The atmosphere that creates, it can win you a lot of points, especially come the end of the season. But my experience going there was they've done an amazing job. The design of the stadium, the steep stands, I think that will create the atmosphere that it needs. And think the team performance this year has sort of showed that they've reacted to the fans and they've started the season well.
You've seen the likes of West Ham, it's not always easy to go to new stadiums, you can struggle. So I was delighted that they got off the ground running and they've started the season really well to find themselves where they are. David Moyes doesn't like it when they flip the other way round, he likes to be the underdog, but he's done an amazing job.
Big move, big challenge for the Toffees
Q: One player in particular, James Garner, he's won a lot of praise from Moyes this season for his performances. How impressed have you been with him and can you see him becoming an important player for Everton going forward?
Yeah, I can. When you're someone like James, I think he's around 24 now - you know you've got that ability.
When I watch him, it's clear that he's got all the tools. He's an all action player, good at set pieces. He can link attacks and break it up. I think you just want that faith in your manager. You want that confidence to have a run of games and then you can show and get into the rhythm and show everybody what you can do. And I think that's what I'm seeing from him this season.
The manager's put the faith in him and he is reaping the rewards for his performances. He’s been top class and more importantly what the manager wants is consistency and that's what they're getting from him. So I think the more he plays he can get better and better. He's linking up well with Dewsbury Hall and they've got great talent out on the wings as well which he can compliment.
Garner growing into key midfield role
Q: You've got a player there with similar Villa and Everton connections in Jack Grealish. Do you think he's going to be key to Everton evolving their style of play? And just how important has the support been from the Evertonians in reviving his career?
Yeah, when in the summer he was linked with Everton, I was thinking this could be the perfect move for Jack in terms of where his career was. It sort of stalled a bit at City and having done the same move, it sort of reignited me.
I was even older than Jack and I found another gear even in my 30s just going to sign for Everton. Fantastic fans. They really get behind you if you know you're putting that 100% in. They'll back you all the way.
I think Jack's reaping the wars, he's come in, he feels part of it, he feels one of the main men again and his confidence is showing. I'm disappointed he's not really had a look in from the England set-up. I thought that move might just give him a look and Thomas Tuchel might have a look at him but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be going that way.
If I was telling Jack now, I'd say keep doing what you're doing because you never know what can happen, injuries, keep playing well. So don't throw the towel in terms of England yet.
Grealish's comeback still has England hope
Q: Obviously England do have a lot of wide options. Do you think Jack Grealish should be on the plane in the next World Cup?
Like you said, there's so many options when you run through them and unfortunately he's not had a look under the new manager but he's different to the rest.
I think the problem he's got, the England manager seems to like the direct players that go down the outside a bit more, a bit more pace. Jack's slightly different. But in terms of him being different, that's possibly why he could be on the, he could be on the plane. Listen, it's going to be difficult for Jack now. He's definitely good enough. Good enough character to be in that dressing room. So that's why I say keep going right to the end of the season because you never know.
Jack still offers something different for England
Q: On England do you think they're good enough for Tuchel to win the World Cup next summer?
I think we've got a good enough group of players, certainly midfield and forward line. Options we've got are incredible, all types of different players. There's going to be a lot of good players left out of that squad, which tells you a sign. We have got a good enough squad. Can we find the right mentality, the right tactics out there? There's going to be that heat problem. There's going to be the dark arts of different teams, the South Americans. Can we adapt and try and use these sort of tactics in the tournament?
But yeah, I'd definitely say we're good enough to go and win it and certainly compete. But I think everyone knows how tough the World Cups can be. It's about timing it right, having that right team spirit and just finding that intensity at the end of the season, having that little bit of a break and going again. Can Thomas Tuchel find that special ingredient to get the team going? Because I've been around squads in World Cups that fell flat, you just don't know for some reason that the whole squad's just flat. Nothing can be said why it happens, it can happen, but the tough task for Thomas and his coaching staff will be to find that right ingredient.
Tuchel must get England peaking at right time
Q: England have gone unbeaten through qualifying and Tuchel says they will arrive at the tournament as underdogs. Do you buy that?
Yeah, as an England fan I want to buy that!
I don't think you want to go into anything favourites. The only way is down from that. Yeah, I think just in terms of where the competition is, all stuff like that is probably going against us slightly. The South Americans are a bit closer to home. They'll have a lot of support base, bit more used to the conditions.
Then you've got three home nations. It's going to be a real, real tough tournament. There's more teams in this. A lot more unknown teams like Panama who we're drawn against. There's not too much I know about them and probably the England manager doesn't know about them. Yeah, but I think like anything, you've to be ready yourself, ready for any sort of situation and you know, the players when it comes to it, they've got to be good to go. So looking forward to hopefully everyone staying fit and the manager having a full squad to choose from.
Barry welcomes the underdog role
Q: If you were in Tuchel’s shoes which players do you think he should be building his team around in the World Cup?
If I was to pick a team now, I'd probably go with the players in form.
I'd look at someone like Reece James at right back with Jordan Pickford in goal, the obvious candidate. Two centre halves for me playing the best would be Marc Guehi from Palace and then Ezri Konsa at Aston Villa. I like Nico Riley from Man City, left back. I just feel from what I've seen so far, any sort of situation is not going to phase him. So I'd play him at left back.
I think the midfield is the real tough one. Like you said, Morgan Rogers and Bellingham, are they competing for the number 10? I'd try and find a place for Bellingham just for his presence and what he's got about him. I'd probably play him possibly deeper with Declan Rice and Morgan Rogers ahead.
Probably tough on Elliot Anderson, who's been amazing in the qualifying games, but you want big players on the pitch.
Saka for me, out wide right, he would be my choice. Harry Kane, obviously, through the middle, and then I think the left sort of wing position is one from probably four players. Look at Gordon, Palmer, Eze, Foden, it's just like an unbelievable choice. I think that one spot there is probably up for grabs out of them players there. It depends, if he wants another more direct player he's probably going to go with Rashford or Gordon. But if you want that player that's pushing inside for that different option, I'd go with Palmer or Foden or Eze to just give you that different angle of attack.
So like we've said, loads of options, but they would be my team in terms of how the players are playing at the moment.
Barry picks his England World Cup XI
Q: A lot of people have been saying the title race is Arsenal's to lose for the longest time. Do you think it's theirs to lose now? And if Mikel Arteta doesn't win this time, do you think he'll survive it?
Yeah, I still think they've been the best team this season. Obviously we're on the back of them losing the weekend, but I like the way he spoke after the game. He wasn't too stressed, he wasn't too anxious. He was sort of, okay, we've been on a great run. It's a little reset. Let's go again. Let's try and go on that run again. If they do, they're going to put themselves in an amazing position to win the league.
But yeah, I think Man City, like I’ve said, they've not really hit the ground running. They're in transition and they're only two points away. For me, they would be the main dangers. And if they're there or they're about, their dressing room is full of players and the manager have done it before. Whereas Arsenal, Arteta and their players, they haven't.
I think for Arsenal to win it, I think they are going to probably have to go on another run and probably have a nice gap of points come the last six, eight games rather than it being tight. And that's where Guardiola and the Man City squad will be thinking, right, we've been here before, we know what to do.
Yeah, and I think Liverpool will come back again. I think they'll come back into the top three or four and, you know, I don't think they can get, they will go on that sort of bad run they've had already. And yeah, I just want Villa to probably stay in and around it, make it interesting. Cause they've certainly got a squad and the manager that can, can surprise a few. So fingers crossed they'll be there when it comes to the business end.
Another big run needed for Arsenal
Q: You just mentioned Liverpool, they can't seem to buy a win at the moment and I don't think that comment from Mo Salah has helped. Do you see this as a blip for Arne Slot for the minute or should he be seriously concerned about his job?
I think he's got to be concerned. Mo Salah’s comments, for the dressing room, it’s probably not going to help the situation. The players, I think any player anywhere in the world, no players bigger than the football club and statements like that are just going to increase the pressure on the manager.
You know, it's probably the last thing he needed when results aren't going well. It's their star player. The player that's done the business for Liverpool has come out and sort of rocked the boat a little bit there. So yeah, it's probably a move that needs to be quashed quite early. So if I was part of that team, you'd want Mo Salah making up with the manager pretty sharpish. Otherwise, one of the two will probably be exiting in January, I would say.
Liverpool need unity or a January exit
Q: And why do you think Florian Wirtz is struggling so much to make an impact at Liverpool? What do you think needs to change there?
I think he's shown real glimpses of why they paid the money. You know, he's clearly a talented player, but I think when you come into a team, you want results to be going well with you and then you can sort of ride that wave, especially early. And when there's a bit of pressure on you, your confidence goes, it seems like he's lost a little bit of confidence. But ultimately it's all about football, matches and winning games.
If you're a player, any fee, if you're part of that. Even the odd bad performance he's forgotten about. The pressure is building on him for that reason. But like I said earlier, I think Liverpool can come back into it, quieting down the noise in the dressing room. But they've still got a squad of unbelievable players that could go on a run and get back up there in the title race.
Pressure too early for Wirtz at Liverpool
Q: You came out of retirement to play for Hurstpierpoint in the 12th tier. What made you decide to do that and what was that experience like?
So my friend just started managing a team. He wanted to start managing his son was getting to 17/18. So he asked me to come and play a couple of games. It made a bit of social media noise a bit more than I thought it would do!
But yeah, I only played two or three games, but it was good fun. I think like anything when I go and play a bit of five-a-side now, I drive to the ground and think what am I doing but as always once you start running around you enjoy it again so yeah football is a fantastic game and I always advise people to play as long as they can.
Still playing for the love of the game
Q: There was that infamous transfer saga in 2008. Martin O'Neill stripped you of the captaincy, fined you and banned you from training. When you reflect on that period now, do you think the punishment was a bit much?
I think the whole saga was sort of a real big lesson for myself. Although I'd been at the club for 10/11 years, I'd never really experienced that sort of thing.
Yeah, listen, I'd done an interview. I was advised by my agent then to do the interview. He advised saying it's probably the only way you're to be able to get out of the club. Looking back, it was the worst thing in the world to do.
I remember Martin O'Neill calling me on holiday going mad at me down the phone. So when I got home from my holiday, I opened the letter and it was addressed from Martin and the football club saying I was fined two weeks wages, banned from training. I'm not even allowed to enter the club shop!
I remember it quite well. I don't know if it was a bit harsh, but you know, I just thought, it is what it is. You can't affect it. I spoke to the manager. I'd done a two weeks training on my own to try and get fit for pre-season. I remember the first pre-season coming back, I got a bit of stick from the fans, but once they saw me giving 100% again, they were soon clapping me.
That year, Martin said I could go the year after for a certain fee if I just got my head down. I probably had my best season for Aston Villa, so I think the fans appreciated that. That period was tough, but a real lesson around how it works in football. Going back, I probably would do stuff differently, but a great learning curve for me as well. And, you know, another great story to tell people about.
