The End of Modern day punting?

Brownie3
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The End of Modern day punting?

Postby Brownie3 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:22 am

Very interested to read this Article from the Racingpost, re Ladbrokes and Corals, who will no longer guarantee any prices they advertise!

To me, if others follow suit, will dramatically alter the traditional way us punters go about our business. It's certainly the end of Pricewise imo.

Quote Racingpost

Coral and Ladbrokes will no longer guarantee to lay the prices displayed in newspaper adverts for a limited period on racedays.

The bookmakers had previously honoured the prices appearing in printed adverts at 8.30am on the day of the race, but have labelled the practice "commercially nonsensical".

Simon Clare, speaking on behalf of Ladbrokes Coral, said: "These days more feature races than ever before are being priced up several days before the race, and prices are constantly moving from the time they are first published until the race going off.

"Given this context, to then guarantee to lay an advert price, that was finalised some 16 hours earlier due to newspaper print deadlines, often means the bookmaker ends up with precisely the opposite position in the market to the one intended. It is not only commercially nonsensical but also a hindrance to providing a modern and professional betting service on horseracing to our customers."

Betting firms have increasingly moved away from guaranteeing to lay paper prices, with more and more punters using the flexibility of online sites to place bets at any time.

While no longer assuring punters bets will be taken at the advertised paper price, Ladbrokes have joined Coral in promising to lay any horse in all ITV races from 9am on racedays to lose up to £5,000.

The offer applies only to bets placed in shops, and Clare added: "While the advertised price guarantee will no longer apply, we are fully committed to laying decent bets to customers on all the best races on all our betting channels.

"By offering this guarantee, larger-staking customers will be safe in the knowledge they can back any horse in any major race to win at least £5,000.

"Due to the challenge of trading volumes of bets in a very short time period, it's not possible to extend such a guarantee to our digital channels."

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Re: The End of Modern day punting?

Postby otbc canary » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:49 am

As far as these two firms are concerned, this is of academic interest to me as I was kicked into touch by both Ladbrokes and Coral ( when they were separate entities) long ago. Oh to be offered a bet to win £5,000. Max with Coral is a fiver, My last attempt with Ladbrokes prompted an offer of 25p. I am sure I am not alone.

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Re: The End of Modern day punting?

Postby Brownie3 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:05 am

The £5k is a shop concession I believe......i think we've all been offered 25p by Lads and maybe abit more with Corals!

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Re: The End of Modern day punting?

Postby Systemight » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:34 pm

well i have been offered 50p bets by Ladbrokes so beat that! :D ...unfortunately Corals closed my account years ago.

A sad state of affairs,as i am old enough to remember when these two firms were two of the big four bookmakers(alongside William Hill and Mecca), alas not anymore.
..because there is always another day...

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Re: The End of Modern day punting?

Postby The Executioner » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:55 pm

Thanks Brownie for starting this thread - as I had been looking at doing something similar but had been pushed for time recently.

It doesn't surprise me really that the Ladbroke - Coral Group have decided to implement this change, and in fairness I can understand the views of both the bookmakers and also the disappointment of their customers. The problem has arisen from the market demand for prices to be available on an event at the earliest possible opportunity. I would guess that the majority of punters these days like to take a price on their selections when parting with their cash, and SP takers will be few and far between. As Clare pointed out, if the bookmakers has deadlines to work to with the press in regard to adverts & Pricewise columns then odds are going to be outdated come Saturday morning for example. The only way around it is to not offer these races the evening before, but then they would be turning away custom towards the path of their rivals that were offering prices.

I wouldn't say it was the end of modern day punting but it may well be the beginning of the end of Pricewise as we know it, because believe you me other firms will follow suit and fail to guarantee prices just as Ladbroke - Coral have. As most people will be aware Pricewise selections are now available to Racing Post members from 8.00pm the evening before - this may alter to try and combat the situation, but if all bookmakers failed to guarantee advertised odds then the Pricewise column simply becomes defunct. Nobody can tip a horse up in an article at say 10/1 - yet when people open the papers in the morning the best available is say 7/1 ...... it's just totally pointless.

I'm actually wondering if the bookmakers adverts actually may need re-wording, at present they usually state along the lines of '' Prices Subject To Fluctuation '' ...... they may now need to say something like '' The Above Odds Are Not Guaranteed To Be Available To Shop Customers When Branches Open '' ....... or bookmakers may well stop advertising horseracing in the Racing Post.

Tom Segal may end up becoming a subscription tipster - but I think that is an area in which he has been reluctant to join. The Racing Post may end up running a Premium Rate tipping service , although I feel this would come in for an avalanche of criticism. These are only my personal views btw.

The Coral £5000 guarantee Lay is a bit of a publicity thing , an attempt by the firm to be seen to be a ' Fair Bookmaker ' .... I may be wrong ( and will be happy to be corrected ) but I think the '' Guarantee '' only comes in to play after 11.00am after the markets have generally settled down ..... and if you are a monitored customer the you will still be massively restricted.


There are far too many offers and bonuses tempting the smaller punters in , whereas all the three figure staking bettor just wants a fair bet to be Layed at the price requested , if it losers you won't hear them moan and if it drifts there will be no complaints. Bookmakers need to stop pampering to the £5 punter and to grow a pair and start taking cash over the counter again.

One final point is directed towards the FOBT players and cartoon punters out there ...... you are all responsible for the state that High St betting shops are in these days, if you are prepared to feed these machines and back virtual horses then you have no respect for the sport that has established these shops over the last fifty years and more.
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Re: The End of Modern day punting?

Postby Robmull » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:56 pm

Good summary The Ex and I tend to agree with all of your thoughts on this topic.

I have thought for some time that the morning price guarantees are outdated, with most bookmaker’s pricing up races the afternoon/evening before the race, with many punters including myself tending to place their bets at best odds available during the evening.

As for BOG, I have often wondered why the bookmakers don’t just set low maximum stake to pander to the small stakes punters, rather than allowing more serious bettors to get involved and then restrict them as soon as they make a few quid.

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Re: The End of Modern day punting?

Postby The Executioner » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:38 pm

The bookmakers need to restrict Pricewise backers, Coral had a £10 Max I believe - other firms may vary. What I couldn't fathom at times was when the reps of certain bookies will be on TV saying they have a liability of £xxxxxx on a certain horse but even if you try to back one against it you still end up restricted. It happened a few years back to me at Royal Ascot of all meetings , the rep of a certain firm claimed to have liabilities of £1m on the Fav ( Animal Kingdom ) in the first race ...... I tried to back one against it - assuming they would welcome the cash - but to my amazement was offered a stake of just a tenner.

'' B.O.G '' is a great offer , but you generally don't get much of a run off bookmakers - if you win or always beat the SP ( let's face it you can't lose getting the '' B.O.G '' ) then you will get this offer withdrawn from your account. The day to day service from bookmakers is shambolic in comparison to years gone by.
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Re: The End of Modern day punting?

Postby Football DZR » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:12 pm

:shock:

"Modern day punting" and "prices in newspapers"

DO NOT even belong on the same page let alone same sentence lol


I mean really ???!!

Pretty much anybody making returns and who grew up with "modern day" punting" is VERY happy with its explosion!
"retirement is dying" Arsene 1st April 2017!!! No Wenger killed the club 10 years ago :D

"Remember never trust an all time loser" :lol:

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Re: The End of Modern day punting?

Postby Robmull » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:12 pm

Interesting to note that Pricewise selections are now being published without any recommendation on the best odds, or where to find them, so all selection will be at SP.

This effectively means that Pricewise becomes just another Racing Post tipster, yet the following byword remains at the top of the Pricewise pages on the RP iPad edition:

“Racing’s greatest tipping service seeks out the value”

By removing the best odds recommendation, the Racing Post has effectively taken away any chance for Pricewise followers to assess whether they are achieving value when placing their bets on the column’s selections.

Taking an example from today’s selections, WHAT ABOUT CARLO was tipped and the odds table showed that he was available at 9/1 with one firm, 8/1 with most of the bookies quoted and 15/2 with the other 2 firms.

He ended up finishing fifth at 8/1, but had he been heavily backed, at what stage would he have stopped being a ‘value’ selection, 8/1 meaning that only the best odds of 9/1 were worth taking, or 7/1 in which case any punter securing a price equal to those quoted on the published odds table would have secured at least a modicum of value?

Surely, if Pricewise is a true value tipster, it should be possible for the Racing Post to qualify each selection, with a minimum target price, above which the column’s followers can be reasonably confident that they are securing some value, albeit based on the view of one ‘expert’ and below which they should not bet, unless they believe that the horse has a better chance of winning than their idol has suggested?

In fact, it would not be a bad idea if all newspaper and media tipsters started quoting the minimum odds at which their selections should be backed, as this would hopefully prevent most of their followers blindly backing selections which have been overbet.

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