How important is the jockey in your selection process?

PompeyJim
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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby PompeyJim » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:39 am

Typical Colin, one of those punting days that transpires against us, but you did see a Derby winner :win:

Echo your thoughts totally concerto, thought it was a golden era for jockeys particularly on the level, and quite a few sadly passed on now and far too early.
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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby meoldmate » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:19 am

I agree 100% with concerto with jockeys for course and everything else.

Possibly with times are changing and we live in an environment that is fast living especially in the cities, plus children growing up, take more interest in computers than anything else and if of the deprive, vandalism becomes the novelty.
Not saying all deprived children/teenagers are looking for destruction for away out, just the life style that our generation has generated.

Plus we all could afford to go racing back then with entry fees reasonable, must admit I never went racing with my father, which was a shame but took my mother once and I took my son Alan racing once, we enjoyed. Cost is unbelievable to take your wife and teenage children racing you could be looking at £100 entry fee before having a bet.

When it becomes to jockeys of today, they will not be notice so much, as the bookies of today, want slot fans and not horse racing fans.

I was at Musselburgh on Monday and being of an age nearer retiring, The entry fee was a fiver, when I was watching the parade ring before and after, you never see the jockeys be asked for autographs all even acknowledging the punters, they just walk past as if you are not there, possibly another reason why today’s jockeys are not well known.
Bar Frankie, they never will be mentioned on the Sports Personalty Awards at the end of the year and that includes Ryan Moore who has won many group one races.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby PompeyJim » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:36 am

Ryan doesn't seem to enjoy the media spotlight Colin do you think ?.. which does not help his cause. Interviewing appears hard work with him for the TV presenters and journalists, Frankie is totally a different character and full of personality.

Interesting observation with the jockeys at Musselburgh on Monday and how times are changing generally. Another member mentioned it previously on this thread as regards the hectic schedule of a jockey nowadays particularly in the summer when most will be doing two meetings a day and sometimes 3 if travel allows.

Do you think that impacts on their outlook and the way they go about about things now ? .. having the time to stop and sign a few racecards for youngsters and racegoers etc..
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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby concerto » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:37 pm

The modern day jockey has no excuse regarding tiredness through travelling or "hectic schedules" for failing to engage with the public.

Sir Gordon Richards was champion jockey 26 times and rode over 200 winners in a season on 12 occasions. He did not have the benefit of helicopters, jets or fast cars and the first motorway in the UK wasn't available until 1959, five years after he retired. He was dependent upon train travel for much of his career. Could you imagine the whinging if a jockey of today had to depend on train travel? The achievements of Fred Archer in the 19th century are even more mind-boggling during his short life but he is another story.

The modern day jockeys are anonymous with the public for one reason and that is because of their ordinariness. Archer dominated the second half of the 19th century, Richards the first half of the 20th century and Piggott the second half of that century. As for this century to date the answer is "Mr Nobody" and I doubt if we will see a Flat race jockey emerge who will win 10 career titles much less come within shouting distance of 26 titles and 4,870 winners.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby burglarbob » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:56 pm

Choice of jockey is usually the third thing I check after distance and going. However there is one so called jockey I try to avoid at all cost. Though I have been known to have the odd serious misjudgement and be fooled into backing a horse I believe is by far the best bet in the race. Even when this klutz is on board. The man in question is Richie McLernon. I will point to some stats. I find them stupefying. What about you ? At Aintree- 52 rides, No wins. Ascot-25 rides, No wins. Punchestown-12 rides, No wins. Chepstow- 113 rides, just 5 wins. Cheltenham- 99 rides, 6 wins. Newbury- 63 rides, just 1 win. Sandown-35 rides, just 2 wins.
This from a man who rides for one of the most successful yards in the country. For one of the biggest owners in the jump racing game.
I just can't understand why people are willing to pay a riding fee to someone so incompetent. There are many great young jockeys out there. They need to be given chances. They need a little nurturing. Opportunity ought to be knocking.
Please note I'm not in any way crying through my pocket here. As I've stated above. I have backed him once or twice. Though in fifty years or more of betting, such tiny losses are not a thimble full of water in an ocean.
I need educating as to why he still gets rides so many others deserve more.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby mantistoboggan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:34 am

Choice of jockey is usually the third thing I check after distance and going. However there is one so called jockey I try to avoid at all cost. Though I have been known to have the odd serious misjudgement and be fooled into backing a horse I believe is by far the best bet in the race. Even when this klutz is on board. The man in question is Richie McLernon. I will point to some stats. I find them stupefying. What about you ? At Aintree- 52 rides, No wins. Ascot-25 rides, No wins. Punchestown-12 rides, No wins. Chepstow- 113 rides, just 5 wins. Cheltenham- 99 rides, 6 wins. Newbury- 63 rides, just 1 win. Sandown-35 rides, just 2 wins.
This from a man who rides for one of the most successful yards in the country. For one of the biggest owners in the jump racing game.
I just can't understand why people are willing to pay a riding fee to someone so incompetent. There are many great young jockeys out there. They need to be given chances. They need a little nurturing. Opportunity ought to be knocking.
Please note I'm not in any way crying through my pocket here. As I've stated above. I have backed him once or twice. Though in fifty years or more of betting, such tiny losses are not a thimble full of water in an ocean.
I need educating as to why he still gets rides so many others deserve more.
The majority of those courses are Grade 1 courses and it may just be that the trainer didn't have the horses capable of winning at that level recently. Not to mention he wouldn't be that yard's first choice rider either. One thing I can tell by the flat racing is that there are jockeys that at Grade 1 courses their strike rates will dip massively because they aren't riding good enough horses to win at big meetings etc. It could possibly be the same for McLernon.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby custard357 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:53 pm

The Jockey is certainly a factor when I'm picking but I try not to let it dominate. Some names crop up when I'm reading through results, and they're not always the superstars, but I think our minds sift information in a way that leave us with a bias so it's something I'm wary of. I got this impression that Josie Gordon often won on less fancied horses but the stats don't really bear it out.
My other issue is that I'll pick a horse for the first race then pick one for the second and realise it's got the same Jockey. I then start to second guess myself as the liklihood of one jockey winning two on the trot is less and I feel l'm decreasing my odds. Totally unscientific but these things play on your mind :)

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby Shrews » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:03 pm

Josephine Gordon actually has a pretty impressive record at Wolves with horses between 2/1 and 7/1 SP, with a record of:

16 wins and 40 places from 80 rides and a +£5, +£2.49 LSP

In class 4 to class 7 this improves to:

15 wins and 38 places from 73 rides and a +$7.50, +£7.81 LSP

Obviously, those are at SP so I would wager that a Josephine Gordon horse with a tissue price of 10/1 - 12/1 in a class 4-7 at Wolves is definitely worth considering with a focus on the jockey factor. If backed into 2/1 to 7/1 then this has a place prospect of at least 70%

Josephine is good at Wolves!

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby custard357 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:06 am

Excellent works Shrews, I'll take that on board. Perhaps I should trust my instincts more!

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