How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Robmull
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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby Robmull » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:10 pm

That really is an incredibly consistent record and just goes to show that personal ratings and systems can generate profits just as well as methods that use traditional form study, jockey booking, etc.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby TeddyT » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:33 pm

How do our members feel about what happened with Bridget Andrews yeaterday?

Would that incident put you off backing a horse with her on board or do you feel she was just unlucky?
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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby Robmull » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:52 pm

Not sure whether it she was unlucky, or made an error - losing an iron twice in a short period of time is probably quite unusual.

That said, even if it was an error, all jockeys make mistakes, let's face it they are only human, so it would not put me off backing a selection with her on board, albeit as mentioned before I don't take much notice of jockey bookings for most of my bets.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby PompeyJim » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:16 pm

Felt she was almost trying too hard and just lost her rhythm and became unbalanced and obviously lost her right iron, I didn't back in the race so possibly not as strong an opinion as the punters who were on but did feel sorry for her as it wasn't for the lack of trying to win.

Seem to remember was it last season when Sam Twiston-Davies had a similar incident on a Paul Nicholls horse on the run in at Southwell ?
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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby jaydubs » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:21 pm

She doesn't have a great record on Skeltons runners and I know a few horses become no bets if she is on instead of Dan

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby The Shark » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:11 pm

Interesting discussion.

The Jockey is the last thing I think about in honesty, after the horse, trainer, other runners etc. The exception being when I spot a particular trend around jockey bookings. I remember when I used to follow the Peter Harris yard (later taken over by Walter Swinburn). Whenever a non stable jockey/non regular jockey was booked there was normally a gamble and those runners often ran well. Other situations like this - I guess when trainers have one ready and on a good mark they don't want any jockey mistakes and prefer to book a better rider.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby superspurs4 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:05 pm

Footballers get booked for diving which is fair doos but to see a jockey fall off without a hurdle or fence in the way is worrying especially with the race at her mercy. In the event that the winning line was nearby Paddy Power paid out which was the decent thing to do and will be good for their business. One thing I'd like to add is how pleasing it was that the jockey was safe which is all that matters.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby Shrews » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:02 pm

Interesting discussion.

The Jockey is the last thing I think about in honesty, after the horse, trainer, other runners etc. The exception being when I spot a particular trend around jockey bookings. I remember when I used to follow the Peter Harris yard (later taken over by Walter Swinburn). Whenever a non stable jockey/non regular jockey was booked there was normally a gamble and those runners often ran well. Other situations like this - I guess when trainers have one ready and on a good mark they don't want any jockey mistakes and prefer to book a better rider.
Interestingly Shark I had a share in a racehorse with Peter Harris called Champagne Prince and old Peter was a bit of a shrewdie and you are exactly right in everything you say!

I remember Peter chastising a young Jason Weaver for winning too far on him at Beverley (4 lengths). We were happy, Peter wasn't!

As for Bridget Andrews, she actually has a decent record of 15% over hurdles, 16% over fences, 16% on the NHF from 364 rides. That compares favourably with the likes of Lizzie Kelly (15%, 12%, 7% from 310), Charlie Poste (5,12,0 from 764) and Alan Johns (11, 14, 6 from 649). She may well have made a cock-up but negative publicity will only mean more value from a rider who is capable enough on the stats.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby meoldmate » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:02 pm

I started taking an interest in racing (when far too young) in the late 70's into the 80's and just feel the crop of jockeys riding back then like the flat boys Piggott, Carson, Eddery, Mercer, Cauthen, Swinburn, Fallon and the jump jockeys Scudamore, Francome, Jonjo, Dunwoody, Bradley (I've probably missed some not intentionally) would more than hold their own against those riding today or recently retired ?

The Piggott, Carson, Eddery era was fantastic...
Pompeyjim I like you enjoyed watching these jockeys above as they were masters of the saddle and they were house hold names with the world of racing and possibly more was known about Lester Piggott and Willie Carson and Pat Eddery.

Today, the jockeys are known to racing fans but they are never really noted as they look part and parcel of the racing industry.
The only jockey that appears in the headlines continuously is Frankie Dettori and his name can be bantered about by anyone from outside of the game.

We all know the jockey's of now and who rides for who but in the days gone by, we could pick a jockey at certain meetings and they would get rides with the potential of winning, like Starkey at Salisbury. Carson and Eddery at Newbury and Lester Piggott at any meeting he turned up at and on a fancied horse.

I may be at the wrong end of the age structure and not note the jockeys of now as I did when in my younger days.

Today, I like to find what jockey has turned up for the one ride.

Mind you, we use to slag those jockeys above mentioned from yester year, as Lester Piggott was a costly jockey to me, when I felt he should of won and possibly he did not want to win, due to falling out with the owner or trainer or even for the horse to be laid out for a touch later on.
All jocks from all periods of time will be moaned at by punters, this will never change,as we all do it from time to time, when our pennies are down.

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby PompeyJim » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:56 am

Agree Colin, I feel back then there were a bigger nucleus of household names known to people outside of racing circles and your right only really Dettori nowadays could probably be named if asked, possibly AP too.

Funny you mention Greville Starkey at Salisbury, I was there one year on my school holidays with my family and we were near the paddock and weighing room and spotted Starkey peering through this window, we could only see his head so we went over and asked him for his autograph and he said "sure, just give me a minute, I only got one hand free" .. we then realised he was in the gents ! ..

Piggott was probably my first jockey I followed, but also felt Steve Cauthen was brilliant when he came over from America. Always remember him winning the 85 Derby on Slip Anchor, he was a brilliant from the front and like many an expert said he had "a clock in his head". The late great Walter Swinburn was a big fav, cool head and didn't make too many mistakes when it mattered in the big races, apart from one year at Ascot in the 90's I was on think it was Ezzoud in the King George and the horse came out of the stalls when they jumped but Wally was still in them !

I like your strategy with the only ride, unless they are up and coming and trying to get themselves noticed, not too many will travel a fair distance for one unless it has a chance. By the time they've paid their expenses, the riding fee would barely cover it (probably wouldn't in most cases).

Good luck :win:
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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby meoldmate » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:00 pm

PompeyJim you mentioned Steve Cauthen on Slip Anchor, I decided to go to Lingfield for the Derby trail and I had never been to Lingfield, my first time, I manage to get lost and being around the corner to the course, anyhow made the meeting, missed the first race bet two races and lost and then Slip Anchor race was there to be seen and this horse sluiced past me without being out of second gear, a person standing by me, looked up and said "how good was that". The rest became history as you pointed out winning the Derby. Funny part of that day, I went there to back Paul Cole horses as he was the trainer to follow there and he had yet to have a winner, so after Slip Anchor win I stayed for one more race and the left as it started to rain and I did not want to get lost going home :D Paul Cole won the last two races, to make my day feel good.
Just goes to show, Starkey found time to give you an autograph, even sitting on the pan :D

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Re: How important is the jockey in your selection process?

Postby concerto » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:27 pm

When I started to follow racing as a boy and was too young to bet, it seemed to me that jockeys excelled at certain courses and/or at specific racing distances. You could back Joe Mercer's mounts blind when he was riding at Bath and guarantee a profit. Later Pat Eddery enjoyed considerable success at Windsor. Over sprint distances it seemed to me that Frankie Durr and Paul Tulk had their horses in the right place and ready for when the tapes went up. Barrier starts were used until 1965.

Lester could win on just about anything, anywhere, over any distance. He was the best I've seen on the Flat and if I'd been an owner who couldn't get Lester to ride for me then I would have snapped up Walter Swinburn who was particularly brilliant on the big occasions. As for today's jockeys, well apart from Dettori they are anonymous to the general public which indicates to me "much of a muchness" by comparison to the previous legends of racing, some of whom were known to the public because of their ability. The general quality of jockeys today means that for me the rider is not a factor in my decision about which horse I'm going to support in a race.

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