Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Shrews
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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby Shrews » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:55 pm

The old addage: Build it and they will come.

A Super-Naps comp will be simple enough to administer and create as long as the vision of the forum is to think bigger. My point above is that the forum is 'unique, but it isn't marketing the USP potential it has.

Vision: To attract the entire betting community to the site through industry-leading tipster credibility.

As said, the forum will know its cracked this when the RP don't refer to national newspaper tipsters as their most credible resource, they refer to the OLBG Super-Naps.

The betting public really should've moved on in the year 2017 to not being reliant on newspaper tipsters for some credibility. Basically, the forum has the opportunity to go out and get them but really needs to big itself up a lot better and shout it from the rooftops. The Mares sponsorship and the Cheltenham preview evening should've been a good platform to do that but I don't see any increase in forum activity because of it, so in evaluation, I think OLBG needs to decide whether that's money well spent or whether an incredible, industry leading, tipping competition would be a better business investment. Don't get me wrong, I love the OLBG sponsorship and preview evening but do wonder what it actually does for the forum because nothing seems to get built on when its all over.

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby Shrews » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:46 pm

Sorry to keep harping on about credibility but I've just looked at the 'Daily 4-Fold' tab only to see the forum is marketing its successes with testimony posts (including a bet slip) from...wait for it... October 2016! This holds virtually zero credibility and is basically saying we haven't had a decent win since then!

Get rid of anything that's more than two months old. The best way to market the 4-fold is through that incredible +£174 LSP not successes from last Halloween!

:lose:

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby Robmull » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:23 pm

Hi guys,

More great discussion points since I last posted on this thread, of which I would like to pick up on a few:

Although I have not fallen foul of the moderators yet and I think that they generally do a good, professional job, there have been occasions where I believe that they have been over officious.

I was interested to see that TeddyT has mentioned that they are seeking members to become moderators and although I doubt that I will have the time to take up such a role, it would be interesting to see a copy of the moderator's 'job description'.

I would also enquire as to who moderates the moderators to ensure that they are working to the job description/forum rules and not going 'off piste'.

I agree with Shrews that it would be great if OLBG could build on the success on the Mares' Hurdle programme, as I must admit that before joining this site, I was under the impression the OLBG was an acronym for a horse racing breeding programme, similar to EBF.

The idea of the Racing Post quoting OLBG tipsters in the run up to each race would be fantastic, but is probably unlikely as the press tend to stick together.

It would be great if OLBG could somehow join the Racing Post Press Naps Challenge, but I guess the site would be unable to get involved as it is not a newspaper, albeit I strongly suspect that our super Naps would perform well against the newspaper tipsters who enter the RP competitions.

I also wonder whether it is appropriate for OLBG to promote the daily 4-folds, even if they have proved to be profitable to date, when most successful punters place single bets, with perhaps the occasional Each Way double on horse racing.

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby Systemight » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:28 pm

I would certainly agree with Rob regarding over officious moderators(well one in particular anyway).

As a then quite regular contributor, i was rather put off from bothering when posts of mine were deleted simply because i "suggested" that a trainer had landed a plot.Not the biggest crime in the world i would have thought,but by suggesting such a thing i could have landed OLBG in court apparently.

Lets be honest,does anyone here really believe that these things don't happen?,what with the state of prize money in our country?.....thankfully my kids haven't grown up to be as bad as me..lol

Apart from that i don't see there is much fundamentally wrong with OLBG at all and would be very surprised if the writing was on the wall....
..because there is always another day...

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby Shrews » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:22 pm

All trainers manage their horses towards winning target races, that's the whole point of being a trainer. Some will be better at it than others, and connections will (should) know when the horse is ready and when it isn't.

- Wrong distance
- Class too high
- Competitiveness too high
- Apprentice ridden
- Wrong type of course
- Wrong time of year
- Running when not fit
- Wrong 'Pattern' i.e days since last run

Telling the owners 'it's ready and in the right race off the right mark' leaves it up to them whether they have a punt or not. They still have to take the risk that the other trainers in the race don't also have a plot horse!

There is nothing wrong, or potentially libellous about calling a horse a 'plot horse' and you are right, it's that kind of moderation that puts others off posting on the forum.

As far as future competitions go, how about a competition that follows the OLBG Mares sponsored races all the way to Cheltenham? I'm not sure how many there are, but it would put a bit of extra 'spice' into the sponsored race.

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby Robmull » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:32 pm

Hi systemight,

I can understand that there is a nervousness around the possible threat of the liable laws and obviously I have no idea what you wrote, but I guess that there are ways of expressing an opinion.

Clearly a comments such as: "can't believe heavily backed favourite, DOBBIN won that race, his trainer HUMPTY DUMPTY must be a crook and obviously gave the horse more than just oats in his morning feed for him to improve that much", is clearly unacceptable.

However, something along the lines of: "well, ultra shrewd trainer, HUMPTY DUMPTY clearly left no stone unturned to coax the well backed DOBBIN to produce a much improved effort to win that race, based on his recent poor form" would probably be considered acceptable, whilst expressing your surprise at the result.

I guess we all have to be careful that we don't cross the boundary as not only will OLBG be in deep trouble, but so will the member who posted the comment, however with common sense and a little self control, contributors should not be scared of expressing an opinion.

Hi Shrews,

Although I am not a huge fan of the numerous forum based challenges, I fully agree with you excellent idea to set up a tipping competition covering the sponsored mares' hurdles, especially if there is a reasonable prize fund allocated to set it apart from the numerous £10 challenges.

All the best.

Rob.

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby DannyCraig » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:10 am

So I've just caught up with the thread & apologies if it seems I'm rehashing old topics that were closed off already in the last few days, but I thought I'd add my 2 pennies worth.

Ultimately the site (and dare I say the success of the site) will have its direction led by its users. Playing devils advocate, the percentage of "Forumites" I can imagine, is a fraction of the overall number of active users that OLBG receive, and the Commercial success of the site in the future will surely be deemed by where the footfall is on the site & not by where a select group of maybe 100 regular forum users get their enjoyment from the site.

There is a danger, especially when discussing this on the forum, that those on the forum believe they are adding more value to the site than those who post winning tips regularly with a certain comment level.

Could OLBG survive without a forum? Very possibly. Would it be the same OLBG that we know & love? Of course not!

Yes, you could argue that user engagement improves with a thriving forum, but there are a lot of people out there who use the other aspects of the site on a regular basis & have no interest in posting their views on a forum. Perhaps not everybody is confident in their ability to express their bet reasoning to a competent level, especially as there are some very knowledgable punters on this site. Whilst this is what we like, is this putting off the majority who don't use the forums?

I look at the forum now for example and find the American Football "SuperBOLBG" competition the shining example of what the forum should be. A group of regular, knowledgable posters, who share in light hearted banter whilst taking part in a well run competition. Now I appreciate NFL is far more niche than Horse Racing or Premier League football, but why is it there are more pages of discussions in this competition over the course of a Sunday evening than there are for a Saturday afternoon of either racing or football? I commend Nors as he was continually pushing discussion on the bigger weekend football games but it appeared that people only posted on those threads if there was a prize on offer rather than actually wanting to use the forum for what is intended for. It's a shame that if it's not a competition, the thread is unlikely to see much action. This last weekend's football discussion received 1 reply from either of the forums (still unsure as to why football & prem football was separated). The 9 page Poisson Distribution thread makes a great read - and this thread has far more legs than most, but there's little discussion on the specific day's racing/football threads other than a select half a dozen who post their selections (and I'm not knocking them - these guys are great, regularly finding winners, and giving a good write up to their selections).

I don't want people to post on the forum just for the sake of being able to enter another competition. I want them to post because they have something to say - it doesn't even have to be of great "betting" value. As great as it is currently that the majority of people who post on the forums are able to offer a well thought out, well reasoned bet for their particular sport, I think it will have to change and become more all encompassing.

Imho, traffic needs to be specifically directed towards the forums & maybe a thread of the day can be linked to any email communications to help with this. I'm sure the Blogs, which are of excellent quality on the whole, are usually read by the same select people too. Then again, maybe we shouldn't be concerned about whether OLBG is a 2 tiered site as the majority don't care about the forums/blogs & only use the site to play in the tipping competitions.

The real question Horage should have asked originally, was if OLBG is to lose affiliate revenues from new bookmaker sign-up's will they replace this by targeted advertising & monetising our data instead (with the appropriate opt-in's of course). I'm sure those required partnerships wouldn't be too hard to find :wink:

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby The Shark » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:54 am

Thanks again everyone for all your continued contributions to these discussions.

Thanks DannyCraig - a great summary there which I completely agree with.

The forum is for discussion. Competitions and giveaways can help to keep the forum active and fun. But ultimately quality discussion will only happen if there are enough people who want to take part and see the benefit of it above and beyond being rewarded with more cash. Those who want this need to lead it. Start the topic threads you want discussions around and encourage them along. On this note I will respond to a couple of points on moderation.

Strict Moderation.
This is what I believe helped the forum to grow and shape the community into what has been and still is, without a doubt, the best sports betting community on the planet. Stamping out swearing, over the top gloating, abuse of others, after timing, ridiculous moaning and abuse of jockeys and trainers etc. helped to make sure that this forum didn't go the way of some other really poor quality ones. People who wanted to swear, moan, big themselves up and ridicule others were sent away to find a home somewhere else.

On swearing - there is just no need for it. What does it gain? We could have a list of swear words and say some are ok, others not. But far easier to just so no swearing.
On accusing jockeys/trainers of wrong doing - no need for it. By all means highlight horses to note for another time, but stating as fact what is opinion will always be a no go. "xxx wasn't trying there, what a crook" is a no go, you can't prove it, it isn't a fact and gains nothing for anybody apart from maybe letting off a bit of steam for the writer. "it looked to me like xx could have got closer, one to keep an eye on next time out" is fine and constructive, it isn't fact, it is purely option being shared and helpful opinion.

For sure we haven't always got moderation spot on. Some moderators may have seen the line in a slightly different place to others. But hopefully you will all understand our best intentions.

However I do accept that sometimes discussions have been stopped unnecessarily and users have been put off starting discussion through fear of wrong doing. So I agree that here we could relax the rules and that may encourage more users to start more topics.

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby Robmull » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:43 pm

I agree with DannyCraig, who mentioned that loss of affiliate payments from bookmakers in respect of account sign ups could result in a need for OLBG needing to find an alternative income stream, but perhaps the issue is even more serious, as the bookmakers would also cease payments in respect of bet placed by members through links from this site.

The Shark has also provided some very valid comments regarding the moderation process and I wholeheartedly agree with many of his comments, as in my opinion there is no need for swearing, bragging, the abuse of other members, or derogatory comments regarding people who work in racing (owners, trainers, jockeys, etc).

With regards to the forum rules, I have been periodically trying to view them over the past couple of days, without success (probably a case of looking with my eyes shut), so would appreciate if someone would be kind enough to post a link to them to put me out of my misery.

I have also previously requested a copy of the moderator's 'job description', as I may be in a position to offer my services, if required, but would need to understand what would be expected of me in terms of time and duties - happy for this to be sent to me by pm, if not considered appropriate to share on this thread.

A response to my early question of who moderates the moderators would also be appreciated.

Must admit that I am concerned as to the lack of current interest in the horse racing forum, as I initiated what I thought were topical threads in relation to the Autumn Double which has been running for over a week and has received just over 120 views and 1 response (my update yesterday) and another on the Prix De L'Arc De Triomphe yesterday which has so far received just over 20 views and needless to say no responses, furthermore the daily horse racing thread end up as a chat between redboy and myself who were the only contributors - so perhaps the writing is on the wall for the horse racing forum?

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby joannemalone1 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:51 pm

Hi Rob here is the forum rules under the help section https://www.olbg.com/community/rules.php
OLBG Moderator

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby Robmull » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:10 pm

Thanks Joanne, much appreciated.

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Re: Is the writing on the wall for OLBG....???

Postby Systemight » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:56 pm

Not that anyone was suggesting my"deleted" posts included swearing etc,etc,i thought i best put it on record that it certainly did not.

I had highlighted before a race that this particular top jumps trainer had been campaigning his horse over the wrong trips/ground all season,and now his horse has been dropped for the first time in the handicap,he finally gets its optimum conditition's today.

When the afore mentioned beast romped home (having been heavily backed into 5/2), i simply posted well done Mr ******,plot landed, and it was that post which earned the "potential libel" email, and the thread deleted.

I was annoyed by this as i didn't see that as being disrespectful to anyone,indeed if anything i was complimenting the trainer on a shrewd piece of placement,besides does anyone seriously believe that Mr ***** would be taking me or anyone else to court for saying that! :lol:

We all have a limited time to give,and having given that time to the site, realization dawns it is better spent elsewhere if your posts/opinions are just going to get deleted for trivial reasons.So yes i agree with Rob that Over officious moderators could well have had an affect on people leaving/no longer posting on site.

However it's gone now so we move on and learn from the experience......
..because there is always another day...

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