Bookies don't take bets , close and restrict accounts

davidg3907
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Postby davidg3907 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:16 pm

In my line of business there are certain customers ( rather types of customers ) I can do without , possibly but not necessarily due to a previous bad experience. Similarly I can't force anyone to use my services even if I quote a cheaper price than anyone else.

There are legal requirements preventing me turning down some customers and that is fine.

However if my website says ' from £100 ' it is up to me whether I quote a friend , relative , or even an acquaintance from here a 10% discount yet quote a prohibitive figure to someone else should I not want their business.

Like a bookmaker , I would be under no obligation to say why I quoted a figure indicative of not being over desperate for a certain person's custom or simply desiring to do something else at the time.

Unlike a bookmaker I may go out of business by turning down work - but it would still be a "trader's decision".

Jaybe , Would it be fine if as a bookmaker all your hedging accounts were closed or restricted as a consequence ?

It is possible for a small bookie to operate in this manner using Betfair - even the top bookmakers could hedge their bets on Betfair but would they want to employ someone to sit there and do so for all losing accounts.

No , prevention seems the best cure these days I'm afraid.
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Postby jaybe123123 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:37 pm

If bookies only want losers they should be forced to tell potential punters upfront.

Bookmakers to provide a clear warning to all new customers that they may have their accounts closed or limited in stakes if they are considered unprofitable.

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Postby davidg3907 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:45 pm

Having a banner saying

WINNING MAY DAMAGE THE STATUS OF YOUR ACCOUNT

would not be a great selling point. :D

On a more serious note , if bookies were forced to take all bets of any stake at the prices offered , what would that do to the prices available to the many losing or mug punters?

They would simply lose even more due to taking the now shorter odds.
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Postby nelix847 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:59 pm

Having a banner saying

WINNING MAY DAMAGE THE STATUS OF YOUR ACCOUNT

would not be a great selling point. :D

On a more serious note , if bookies were forced to take all bets of any stake at the prices offered , what would that do to the prices available to the many losing or mug punters?

They would simply lose even more due to taking the now shorter odds.
Not a chance 2nd part of this month with me :lol: They take money out what ever when it suites them these days.
I stake low on bets.(Real Life)

If i had a double headed coin I would still loose and if i had a lucky rabbits foot it would bring as much luck as it did the rabbit.

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Postby jaybe123123 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:30 pm

I don't think they should have to take any stake but at least £20 at the advertised odds would be ok. If they took £20 off a few customers the liability wouldn't be too much and they could cut the odds soon afterwards if they felt they had offered odds that are too big.

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Postby deswalker » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:24 pm

This is quite simple for me, if i was a businessman with 100.000 clients and 2 of them weren't making me any profit then i wouldn't deal with those clients. Just because these are bookmakers it doesn't mean they have to be any different, at the end of the day it's a business.
On the face of things, this statement sounds reasonable but there is a fundamental misunderstanding within it. That misunderstanding is that most businesses don't have, built into their core day-to-day operation, the fact that they have to GIVE BACK a chunk of all the money that they take.

You can try as you might, but you won't ever get away with paying out nothing. The percentage of winning punters is, I believe, larger than it ever has been before and the reason for this is the amount of data which is available. But on the other side is the general slackness of the bookies, as for a long time they've been able to coin money from other sources (I need not mention their name), follow exchanges to form their books and ultimately trade bets off which they don't want far too easily.

Now the unmentionable items are coming under legislation and exchanges are less all powerful they have found that they can't quite so easily go back to their old business model... particularly those with shareholders to placate... Oops!

Answer: either get rid of those that win (easy, but shorttermism as you alienate your client base) or attempt to get back to the core business of forming books and laying bets (risky, accountants don't like that, and unfortunately much lower profit margin).

What's it to be?

:?
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Postby pumpdaball » Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:25 am

Bookies do restrict or even bar you, in my experience a good few years ago, when I ate, slept, and worked, horse form books, I could tell you the name of most of the horses in all the big trainers yards, to make this as short as possible I placed a bet of £10 a six horse accum, with the then Mecca bookmakers, in the high street, (i think mecca merged with William Hill. not sure but i think so) anyway that is not relevant to this story, my six horses won, yes all six, I am not here to brag or boast so I wont say how much, except none were odds on, and one was 8s and another 6s just to show it was sizable, when I went to collect, I was told to come back at 5.30 when they closed, so I did, they locked the door when I went in, there was no other customers. and they told me they needed to go up the road to another branch, it was about 5 minutes walk, and collect more money from there, and bring it back to the shop I was now locked into. there was other staff there too. between both shops they did not have enough to pay me so they asked if I would accept a cheque for the rest. and of course I agreed, ok that was all done and dusted, it was just near christmas of that year, I was working through christmas except christmas day, but on boxing day I went into mecca again and placed a 6 horse accum for £10. and no lie, it too came up, and it was as before, both shops money and a cheque, no one said anything to me, just paid and that was that, about 3 weeks past and my friend had a greyhound tip, so I went into the same shop because it was my local only about 2 or 3 minutes from where I lived, I wrote out a slip with a bet for £10 win on my friends tip, it was T6 @6/4f , the manager told me, "you are barred here, and in all mecca shops, you are not allowed to place bets in any mecca shop" I was a bit stunned, I am not someone who causes any kind of trouble, I see some guys hitting shelving etc in shops because of their bad luck, I presumed he mixed me up with someone who had caused trouble or something, so I told him that there must be a mistake, he repeated the above and that was it, I wasnt shown the door or anything, they just wouldnt take a bet from me.
some time passed, and who should walk into my workplace but the manager of that same shop. so I approached him. and he was a nice guy, not in any way abrupt or arrogant, so I asked him. off the record, why am I barred from your shop and all of them, he told me this.
"They recognize your hand writing on those two bets you won, and they have concluded you know something" which was not true, well maybe I did but it was from huge study and reading of form books, those big thick ones I had dozens of them. but they thought I was getting information from some souce, anyway that really did happen, and if mecca records are still archived today, then verification exists. I went to the arc de triomphe that year, with some of my winnings, of course I did have bets at mecca through my friend, who wrote them and put them on. so it was a pointless effort on their behalf.... Now years later I would not go into a bookies if they gave free bet to me. I use the exchanges, where it doesn't matter how much you win or how often. so i have to say in this thread that yes bookies will restrict you or even bar you.
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Postby jpaul71 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:55 pm

A certain Irish bookies barred me after just two bets that won around £354 (it wasn't PP) - they are a pretty poor outfit in my eyes anyway. I have winning accounts and losing accounts - and I find those bookies I back with most (and win most from) bet365, PP and Stan James have never not taken a bet of mine and I now back with the Betfair sports book with a winning account but am not getting any limits. In a competitive market I doubt we need a petition on this though as those firms not taking bets will wither and die in the long run?

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Postby punting4profit » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:56 pm

It won't change as much as I admire SBCs proactive action.

The problem, as I see it, is that the Bookmakers are largely in bed with almost everyone whether it be through sponsorship, affiliation fees or just because the uninformed masses would never and don't believe that Bookmakers ban people and that winning customers even exist!!

There are uncomfortable and hypocritical relationships between the Bookmaker and many other areas within the sport. You try slagging off a Bookie on a so called 'rival' site and you are banned before the thread is deleted!!

The thing that really grips my **** is when they reduce the price on a horse up to half an hour after the BHA have withdrawn it in order to increase the Rule 4 on the winner.... Oh - and when I get knocked back in a shop yet the price doesn't even change!!!! OHHHH - and when the media report that they have taken a 10k bet IN CASH in one of their shops.... Yes, yes of course you have - but can I get more than £25 on!? Can I balls!!!!!

It's important these threads get raised every now and then but unf, nothing will ever change. The Bookies buy everyone in sight and disable the punters that can beat them....

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Postby punting4profit » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:04 pm

And another thing!! (that's already been mentioned), why have promotions if you are going to ban any shrewd punter that uses them to turn the tide in his advantage?!

Example

Bet 365s C4 offer - bet on more than one of them on a Saturday to £50 and see how long you last?!

Power will return stakes on 2nd and 4rd in Gold Cup...? You could back the realistic challengers, lay them back to the same liability and then walk away with almost risk free £90 profit....

If they can't think these things through and leave themselves open to the punter with a brain that's their own fault!!!! Do they get sacked?! Clearly not - they just press the ban button!!! To be honest, and I never, ever thought I would say this, I'm up for an Exchange Monopoly on Horse Racing.... Would change the game completely but at least it would be fair to all :yes:

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Postby Carreira » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:58 pm

Seriously I find it ridiculous that brokers cap accounts or restrict them when they notice a high rate of success. Ladbrokes once pulled that thing on me.

I remember talking it over with my tipsters and they telling me it's because of sports arbitrage that those procedures are in place - but that is damn infair!

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Postby Pumpy Pig » Wed May 21, 2014 11:49 pm

I have spent the last few weeks opening a few more bookie accounts and have been restricted almost immediately by 3 of them. I'm not sure if I can name them but their excuse was trader decisions. I have not exactly been a large player with bets mainly at the £10 mark and sometimes up to to £20 or £30. It appeared that as soon as a win occurred any further bets were restricted to 20p, 25p and 66p. I take on board the usual "they're a business" excuses etc but it appears to me that these bookies are misleading punters which in other professions would be clamped down on - as the FCA do with rogue traders. They put up odds to look better than the other bookies on Oddschecker and then only accept a 25p bet. I'm suprised that no bookie has cottoned on to the goodwill and positive feedback that Pinnacle appears to be getting for attracting the best bettors to sharpen their odds. I wish that they covered horse racing.

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