Why didnt England Qualify

Why didnt England qualify?

Poor Management / Tactics
72
48%
Poor Players
19
13%
Poor Attitude
36
24%
The English style of play
13
9%
Poor development of technical skills
10
7%
 
Total votes: 150
OlbgDeleted29786
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Postby OlbgDeleted29786 » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:52 am

England lacked heart. Plain and simple. Not many out there looked willing to put themselves on the line for the jersy. I understand there was a long list of injuries but the team selection to me seemed poor.

Beckham is a guy who I just cannot hate. He has showed in the past how much playing for England means to him, and for that alone he should have started.

IMO the game tonight lacked nutters. It is in these games where you need to put out the likes of Joey Barton, Lee Bowyer and Kevin Nolan. People who are willing to stick the boot in and break peoples legs. It is all fair and well playing Gerrard and Lampard who can run the midfield for there clubs, but have they ever been hugely effective when playing together for England?

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Postby Global Gordon » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:48 am

A quick word from an equally depressed Scottish Fan.

I think England are suffering in a similar way as Scotland did a few years back. Too many foreigners in their top league, which reduces opportunity for the home grown players who in turn provide you future international players.

In years gone by Scottish clubs almost bankrupted the game in Scotland by chasing after very highly paid, but in the global picture, journeymen players. OK, there were the few exceptions but basically the huge transfer fees and salaries paid was money that would have circulated in the Scottish/British game instead swelled the coffers of other European Clubs.

Fortunately both clubs realised the dire situation at the 11th hour. Both clubs carried huge debts and needed to clear these to keep the clubs on a viable financial footing that is why there was so much talk about them wanting to get into the Premiership to join the Gravy Train of Sky TV handouts!!!! This avenue was closed to them therefore they had to raise revenue in other ways. Celtic employed M O'Neil who turned the club around and took them on an unbelievable trip that ended in Seville - a hugely profitable venture which almost single handed wiped out their debt - because the board refused to spend too much on players preferring to wipe out debt and get the Academy up and running (just completed). Rangers on the other hand got through to the knockout phases of the CL, sold-off their merchandising outlets and had another share issue. They have, once again, reached the highly profitable knockout stages of the CL. They already have their Sports Academy up and running.

When you consider the amount that Rangers and Celtic get from TV in comparison to an English Premier side then it become apparent why they cannot compete in the European Transfer merry-go-round nowadays which has had its spin-off at National Level.

Teams below Rangers and Celtic have never been able to compete with them in the Transfer Markets and since the Bosman rulings have had to invest heavily in their youth systems. This has been very successful but as per usual the 2 big fish have hoovered up all of the talent produced by the other clubs - but at least they are all beginning to produce a flow of talent, that is being given a chance in our Premier League in preference to Journeymen Europeans who come here, kiss the badge & tell the fans how much they love the Club, collect the big salaries then move on to the next mug club who will pay hugely inflated fees for their mediocre services!!!!

The exception to the rule in Scotland is Hearts - owned by a foreigner who is determined to bring the whole of his home country to play in the Premier League at the expense of young Scottish talent!!!!

To summarise I think more English Clubs need to produce their own talent and give them the opportunity to play, experience and learn their trade at the top level of football in preference to constantly paying huge transfer fees to foreign clubs for foreign players. It is a double edged sword in that it results in fewer opportunities for emerging talent and the money flows out of the English game - money that can be used for the development of young English/British talent.

This is not the sole problem but one part of the overall picture that is within the capabilities of most clubs to change.



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Postby Ipoh Shark » Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:01 am

everything boils down to one word, "Money".

Players are too rich. Too many youngsters coming into the game and get paid ridiculous amounts of money before they even learn how to use it. i do not need to dwelve into the lifestyles of your football stars. It means nothing to them not being able to play in Euro 2008, they do not need the exposure as they are already stars, they do not need the money as it is nothing compared to what they get from their clubs, they even get to rest their tired legs after too many football matches!

Everyone is afraid they do an "Owen"; get injured in a game for the country and never reach their previous heights again. The fact is, clubs pay their fat salaries and there is no need to go in for the crunching tackles. How can u expect the players to risk their "million dollar legs" for their country?

Do u notice the English players pass the ball more nowadays compared to say, Keegan's era? It is not due to England have adopted the passing game, they are just afraid to keep the ball at their feet as the career threatening tackle will surely come.

Previously, the English were feared for their robust play, they never had flair but u can count on them to hound their opponents into mistakes. Nowadays, i see half-hearted attempts and as soon as the ball is passed from the player's zone, it is no longer his business.

How can anyone play decent football if they do not tackle, do not dare to dribble and do not play their natural style of football?

Of course, there is the long standing weakness of a reliable man between the post. Almost every England goalkeeper for the past decade has his defining blunder (embarassing to even mention), James, Seaman, Robinson and now Carson. It is like a curse.

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Postby Antony OLBG » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:35 am

I actually thought the players did try hard last night. Not so much through a desire to qualify but from a fear of not qualifying.

After the first goal went in the team seemed to completely panic. All the organisation and discipline went out the window and it was like watching the last 5 minutes of a game.

I think much of the problem is mental. The stress of playing for England is clearly very draining. Just like we never seem to win on penalties, when the pressure is on and we are expected to win we rarely perform.

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Postby manafana » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:50 am

Well the clubs arnt helping when Crouch is actually good enough to start but hasnt had the games, and persisting with Robinson when the likes of Green and James where in form and then throwing Carson in at the deep end with qualification on the line madness.

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Postby jeremiah catskill » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:56 am

This article from Martin Samuel completely mirrors my own thoughts & is a huge part of the reason why we continue to disappoint

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 910642.ece
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Postby Betfairalfie » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:01 am

I can't vote for any one option and there is no "all of the above" option. Looking back over our results we had some highs and lows, typical England stuff.

No solid goalkeeper.

Crouch (perhaps the best player last night) forces us to play the high ball game.

Insufficient depth in our squad, not enough home grown talent in the EPL.

Some poor tactical decisions.

In reality we aren't as good as we should be and we are certainly not as good as most England fans think we are.

A humbling experience :(

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Postby gecko6 » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:04 am

I think much of the problem is mental. The stress of playing for England is clearly very draining. Just like we never seem to win on penalties, when the pressure is on and we are expected to win we rarely perform.
agreed, and that's down to the curse of political correctness in this country

30 yrs ago you were taught to win and to get on with it if you didn't - nowadays there are no winners, just all equal competitors, you have "development areas", you can't tell someone they're rubbish and need to toughen up as you have a court case thrown at you in 3 seconds flat

it's the same in the workplace; kids of 18 walk in and expect you to make their lives cushy and almost get offended when you suggest they might like to do what they are paid for rather than actually graft and impress

this all means that when pressure is applied, they crumble... arrogance is fine if its linked to real ability and mental strength but if it is based on ego and hype then it's a fairly simple conclusion as to what will happen when under scrutiny

add that to the amount of money in the last 15yrs (courtesy of sky) flooding into the game making prima donnas of 18 yr olds who have played 4 games...

and the media-driven desire for instant glory, success and "celebrity" which influences too many chairmen and corporate fans alike..

and the old boy network which still dominates our national sports' governing bodies, and refuses to let anyone without a blazer in to change things

and you have a recipe for maybe not a disaster but a overblown, hyped, under-performing, weak, spineless, pampered national team who will constantly let you down

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Postby nors » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:56 am

There is not one reason for England not qualifying there are many which hopefully we can all expand on. I have a story from when i was younger which even at the time i thought was wrong and echos what many have said on here.

I managed to get a trial for Bristol Schoolboys and trooped off to the trials. There were about 100 schoolkids there for the under 19 and under 16 teams who were all mixed together. I did ok but the best player far and away was a chinese midfielder in the mould of Fabregas/hoddle/ etc nobody could disposses him and his passing was perfect.

I got through and our first game was against Newport schoolboys when i asked the other kids in the team where this chinese kid was they said "he didnt get through- he was to small, I was amazed as even at 16 i could see he was better than all of us.

The second thing was that many of the players in the under 16s final team at the original trial i thought were under 19s, because they were chosen for their stature rather than whether they were the best players.

This way of thinking is endemic throughout uk football which is stuck in outdated and outmoded practices where the best often dont get through. It was interesting in the recent football idol programme where coaches from chelsea disagreed with foreign coaches on who was doing well in the trials.

Finally the newspaper article quoted in this thread is one of the best articles and sums up one of the major problems ( there are many).

As a finally example to our thinking Benitez was ridiculed for substituting GERRARD in a premiership game by football pundits, but benitez was right he did not want a headless player hitting 75 yard passes at a 100 miles an hour all over the pitch he wanted the game slowed down i can see this yet the pundits could not, and they set the tone for football reporting and where our opinons are formed. Gerrard is a great player but needs to be told by the manager on ocassions that every pass he makes dosent need to be a match winner.

I admire Michael owen for i reckon he must have been told 1000 times he was to small yet he persevered despite this.

As for passion there is a place for it in our football but is no more or less important than 100 other criteria, i am passionate and will run around all day for England but i am not good enough, passion is not enough.

Hopefully our non qualification will have some positive change. If you watch Arsenal and man utd this weekend you will see that football can be played in the right way.

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Postby OlbgDeleted34322 » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:06 pm

Great point nors - I really think that there is a poor scouting system in this country, not just for football, but for all sports. There are loads and loads of talented kids around but it seems that 99% of them slip through the net, and many of those with 'pushy parents' and connections get through. Obviously not true for most players, but this type of thinking is entrenched in our society, not enough 'out of the box' and unorthodox thinking.
Last edited by OlbgDeleted34322 on Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby nors » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:10 pm

one more thought If czech, fabregas and torres had played instead of carson- barry- defoe would the result have been different?. That little bit of class may have proved this difference. 3 world class players against 3 average players, that small touch of class at the top level is the difference between winning and going out. it may have been 3-2 to us.

one save from czech

one pass from fabregas( and also going short to stop beckham,lampard,gerrard hitting 100 yard passes, is it easier to control a pass from 10 yards or 100- answers on a postcard)


one strike from torres

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Postby OlbgDeleted49403 » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:46 pm

I personaly blame the manager. The nerve to even have a chuckle at a post match interview!

The players where misguided specialy on tactics.

But the logical side of me says it a bit of all.

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