bwin update - This defies belief

Murtle
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bwin update - This defies belief

Postby Murtle » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:23 pm

bit of background I deposited 245EUR and turned that into 2452EUR in 2 days. Then without warning BWin closed my account for 5 days for so called "security investigation". After numerous emails from me they reopened my account and said all was well. I increased by account to 2953EUR and logged in tonight to withdraw my account. BWin have now disabled my account and refunded my original deposit of 245EUR. I've since learnt they should never have been offering "live" betting to Australian punters so after all that I'm glad I got my original deposit back. Pity about the 2708EUR I invested time in. Steer clear what ever you do !

Murtle
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update

Postby Murtle » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:30 pm

I should add, this was all done without any contact letting me know the situation. Extremely BAD customer service !

The Executioner
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Postby The Executioner » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

Effin appalling if you ask me !

madbobmagee
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Postby madbobmagee » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:31 pm

It is shocking CS to be honest and I wouldn't be too interested in opening an account there myself but this scenario does highlight the importance of reading the Ts+Cs before sigining up to anything. I don't know about anyone else but I always read the Ts+Cs in full before joining any group.

I had a quick look through the BWin Ts+Cs and found this,
The company expressly points out that the placing and negotiation of bets or the participation in sports betting, multiplayer poker, casino and lottery-like games may be subject to legal restrictions and possibly even be prohibited in some countries. Such restrictions or prohibitions may be applicable even if the company has obtained the relevant permits (betting or casino licence) for placing and negotiation of bets. Therefore, the user should take note that if the placing of bets or participation in sports betting, multiplayer poker, casino and lottery-like games are not allowed, or only allowed under certain conditions which are not fulfilled here, he alone will bear the responsibility for any disadvantages arising from it. The user should, further, take note that beyond the information contained in this paragraph, the company has no duty to inform, warn or educate users. In particular, the company is not responsible for disadvantages whatsoever arising for the users from the disregard of relevant prohibitions in his/her home country.

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Postby Betfairalfie » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:00 pm

I will bring this to the attention of someone who knows the Aussie betting rules better than me, but just a few question first;

- your account is in Euros not AUSDollars?
- are you an Australian citizen?
- do you access the account from an Australian IP Address?
- what is your country of residence, the country address of the account, and is this all supported by your ID paperwork?
- what type markets did you bet on?

If you want to answer by PM then fine.

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Postby kicksnare » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:53 pm

BWin is the company I've heard the most about regarding account closures.

Don't fancy them at all!

Murtle
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bwin

Postby Murtle » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:46 am

Thanks everyone for replies. By the way my original deposits have now been charged to my cc. I'm going to have to contact my bank to find out why one day they were included in the outstanding balnce, the next day they were not and now they are again.

To answer your questions the account was in EUR, I live in Oz and accessed the account through an Oz IP address, betting on live sport markets.

I realise every company has different T & C's and at the time that I signed up I had no idea live betting was unavailable to australian citizens even if the site is an overseas company. I assumed that having access means it was all ok.

However I've since learnt sights like Betfair automatically prevent Oz citizens from betting "in live" action. For BWin to claim to have no responsibility just because of some internal T & C's is down right irresponsible and misrepresents good responsible operators.

I will be happy to get just get my initial deposit back and be done with them. Although I'm not holding my breath. Expensive lesson I guess

The saga continues

Murtle

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bwin

Postby Murtle » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:52 am

Thanks everyone for replies. By the way my original deposits have now been charged to my cc. I'm going to have to contact my bank to find out why one day they were included in the outstanding balnce, the next day they were not and now they are again.

To answer your questions the account was in EUR, I live in Oz and accessed the account through an Oz IP address, betting on live sport markets.

I realise every company has different T & C's and at the time that I signed up I had no idea live betting was unavailable to australian citizens even if the site is an overseas company. I assumed that having access means it was all ok.

However I've since learnt sights like Betfair automatically prevent Oz citizens from betting "in live" action. For BWin to claim to have no responsibility just because of some internal T & C's is down right irresponsible and misrepresents good responsible operators.

I will be happy to get just get my initial deposit back and be done with them. Although I'm not holding my breath. Expensive lesson I guess

The saga continues

Murtle

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Postby Betfairalfie » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:00 am

Murtle - unlucky :lose:

I suspected you fell foul of the Australian gambing laws and that BWin, like many other bookies, didn't have systems in place to cope with them!!! I think most bookies have similar T&Cs - the onus seems to be on customers to ensure that what they are doing is legal in their country. So basically your stuffed.

I will bring the thread to the attention of the Australian guy I know and maybe he will have some views.

But on the bright side at least you've learn't how to dramatically increase your bank. All you need to do now is find a bookie/exchange that legally allows it, or move country !!

A cautionary tale for residents of countries with strange gambling laws :x

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Postby OlbgDeleted99468 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:17 am

Murtle,

That's pure crap from them and this is why.

I know for a fact they have had Australian employees working remotely to trade live in matches, to say they've only just found out it was an offence is rubbish. By offering AFL & NRL matches in-running, they are deliberately targetting Aussie customers and cannot hide behind such bullshit buried deep in their T&Cs.

The Federal Interactive Gaming Act of 2001 expressly states it is an offence against the company, not the individual placing the bets. Whatsmore, because they are not based in Australia, then there is no possible prosecution against them. The Aus Fed govt has not made any prosecutions against the Act, despite every UK bookie offering these services to Aus clients and Betfair offered it for a while before applying a ban via IP blocking.

Do not stand for this shit, you are letting them get away with shafting punters, and this will then strengthen their case against others later on. Don't let them make you believe it's your fault. That's like saying it's the wife's fault for getting beatn by the abusive husband.

However, I doubt they answer to any arbitrary body such as IBAS. Does anyone know what the punter rights body is for Gibraltar?

Contact me via PM and I'll give you details of an Aus journo who will be very interested in this. And get on other boards and forums as well...

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Postby Betfairalfie » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:19 am

zakazano - thanks for taking the time to reply.

murtle - Keep us posted. Don't let the B's Win !!!

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Postby Andy4Fingers » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:21 am

I think the Gibraltar Regulatory Authority is the Gambling Commissioner for BWin and issues their licence. Here's their website - http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/gov_depts/i ... gaming.htm . It has a phone number and an email address for them at the bottom of the page.

I found this quote from there interesting, particularly the last part: "The Gibraltar Regulatory Authority, in turn, is the Gambling Commissioner under the provisions of the Gambling Act 2005. The Act grants the Gambling Commissioner powers to ensure that licensees conduct their operations in accordance with their licenses and in a such a manner as to maintain the good reputation of Gibraltar."

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