Lay option not available

[MullyOLBG]

I've flagged this up before and was told it was price related. However the point I was trying to make was that the drop down option is simply not there-on ANY race?

I have to go out now. If admin could manually place £500 Lay Sizing America 4.30 Market Rasen I would be very grateful.

[nors]

We dont allow laying until we have 3 bookies covering a market as there have been instances of very low odds being available in some of the early prices that have led to unrealistically good lays.

We get the Lay options in place on races asap.

[Antony OLBG]

Most races have it
Bookie coverage for the Sizing race seems limited at the moment not sure why - just 2 bookies and Betfair so not enough for laying

[davidg3907]

Yesterday there were Lay options available at SP when only Bet 365 prices were showing. I only laid one horse yesterday and took a price , so either Bet365 were top price on all runners or the Lay at prices were also available whilst only one bookie had a feed.

In any case , it has yet to explained why layers get an advantage by laying at SP when odds are only showing from one bookie but can Lay at SP when odds are showing from no bookies or three bookies.

Surely it is only a matter of the Lay at SP option being permanently available , and the take a price option triggered by the number of bookies - rather than the Lay option itself being triggered.

Backers have the choice of tipping at SP or the MOST FAVOURABLE odds available ( or not available as the case may be ). Layers have the choice of tipping at SP or the LEAST FAVOURABLE odds available - in both cases that is before being penalised further in the name of making it so they can't be seen to get an advantage !

This business of unfair advantage is a strange one.

BACKERS that can take artificially high prices when they are no longer available at the bookie are apparently not getting an unfair advantage over those that can't monitor the markets in real time.

The only TRULY fair way would be for ALL comps to be run at SP , then NOBODY could take advantage of ANY situation , and it would not matter whether feeds were working or not - they could still be there as a guide.

Actually even that is not quite the case. The fairest way would be for ALL to be settled at Betfair SP where there is no advantage to anyone and no need for adjustments. However , as that is not feasible , the SP option would be the happy medium.

The only people who would then feel aggrieved over a period of time would be those that sit and place tips when the price is no longer available.

What would we like to see on OLBG - layers not being treated like second class citizens , then more may get involved. The knock on effect of that would surely be an overall improvement in the standard which could only be good for the site.

As Antony says , most races have it.

That may be true. However , BACKERS can take a price once that has shortened ( even if only one bookie has a feed ) - presumably because that is considered fair. LAYERS ( even if able to place a tip at all ! ) can't place a tip on a horse that has drifted unless three bookies feeds are available because it would be unfair.

My dictionary does not describe ' fair ' this way.

Layers may be able to get into the PRO league , but of course have virtually no chance of collecting a prize , again due to the ' fairness ' of the competition.

In time , it would be good to see a PRO league for layers , albeit with token prize money to reflect the lesser number of entrants.
_________________
One-a-day history

Winner June 2010 , Nov 2010 , Oct 2012
Runner-up July 2010 , Aug 2010 , Jan 2011 , Oct 2011
Record score , old method (528.50) Nov 2010

You can read more of my ramblings via my blog as it is now LIVE !

[MullyOLBG]

Nors-This is absolute nonsense!

At 8.50 am this morning I have NO advantage. I am basically Mr Joe Public on his way to work trying to place a Lay bet for later in the afternoon and the option is not open to me.

Why am I penalised?
As it happens my hunch was correct and Sizing America was beaten. I feel very aggrieved.

Can you confirm here and now that prior to a certain number of betting partners pricing up a race you cannot accommodate lays on runners early in the morning? Surely a software development is in order?

[The Shark]

Thanks davidg, Mully

I hear your frustration. Even if we were to invest a lot of time and money, it would be hard to get a situation where both back tipsters and Lay tipsters were completely happy that they were competing on a level playing field. In the past Lay tipsters were at an advantage and I can understand why you feel that they are now at a disadvantage.

Please remember though that we have a seperate Lay tipping competition where you can compete together on the same terms.

When making statements like "this is nonsense" please also try to remember that the site is free to use and the ultimate aim of the site is to work together, share information and help each other to find more winners and beat the bookies!

One option is to remove the Lay tipping altogether, but having the option for people to share their quality Lay tips, backed up with reasoning in the tips comments box is of value for the whole community, regardless of the price which is recorded for the tipster competition. At the same time you are still able to compete with other Lay tipsters and win prizes. So we would rather keep it there even if it isnt perfect.

There are lots of things on our lists which we would like to invest time and money on improving and we may get to this at some stage but becuase of the reasons above and the relatively small number of people who Lay tip, this isnt very high up the list at the moment.

Thanks

[davidg3907]

Richard ,

All we ask is that the Lay at SP option is ALWAYS available.

I ask again , how can anyone gain an advantage from that ?

Most other sites do not have the option to take prices in their comps , so avoid this problem altogether.

Saying that we can compete on a level playing field with other layers is one thing - some being able to compete and others not being able to compete at all is something else entirely.

Imagine a scenario going into the last day of the month where some tipsters were permitted to make tips and some ( like Mully ) weren't because they had to go to work.

FAIR
_________________
One-a-day history

Winner June 2010 , Nov 2010 , Oct 2012
Runner-up July 2010 , Aug 2010 , Jan 2011 , Oct 2011
Record score , old method (528.50) Nov 2010

You can read more of my ramblings via my blog as it is now LIVE !

[davidg3907]

I have just looked at the 8.15 and 8.45 at Towcester tomorrow.

It is possible to Lay at SP on the 8.15 because NO bookie has prices - but not on the 8.45 because Bet365 have prices up.

How can it be possible to cheat by laying at SP in the 8.45 but impossible on the 8.15

Is there any LOGICAL reason for this

Nors stated

[Antony OLBG]

David/Mully I will look into this personally this week and get back to you

[MullyOLBG]

Cheers Antony,

Essentially the only angle I am coming in from is that I enjoy playing the Lay competition as I enjoy the challenge of getting a hot-pot favourite beaten on a daily basis however sometimes there is a problem when I want to place my bet before work.

As David points out you can be at a very distinct disadvantage come the crucial last day when you need to post early in the morning.

In reply to The Shark, I apologise for venting my spleen :rant: however the reasons I was being given for this situation occurring were totally contradictory to what in reality I was simply trying to achieve. ie- place a Lay bet on a daily basis early in the morning. Coupled with the fact that the shorty-priced horse I identified before work lost somewhat compounded my misery & frustration.

I was suggesting that some coding could be changed in the programming that allows you to Lay at S.P, irrespective of any bookmakers pricing the race up. How easy this would be for the techies I not sure?

[Antony OLBG]

Ive made a few adjustments. I think it should work as follows

2 or More Bookies
Laying at Odds or SP+

1 Bookie or SP Prices
Laying at SP+ only

Let me know if its all ok now

[MullyOLBG]

Antony-that's absolutely wonderful sir! Many thanks for helping (& coding)