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InsideMan
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:38 pm     Post subject: Timeform Ratings? Reply with quote

Is there any website which has timeform ratings for free? i.e: racecard ratings.. which horse could be expected to improve past the top rated.. marked with a small p for 4lbs or more improvement.. big P for 6lbs or more.. + for a horse which could improve more then so much... not sure if I'm correct there but that's what I remember from the local Ladbrokes people Laughing .. I'd really like to know because Ladbrokes do have these ratings in their shop before the race starts and they are really useful.. I know turfline has a similar rating system and his system is very effective when used wisely (they can boost your confidence in your selection for the day)... thanks Smile

this is probably asking for too much because I know timeform charge a daily rate of 5 per racecard if I'm correct there..
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TheBooyRooney
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:06 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont at the races have timeform etc here for 2.50 haydock
http://www.attheraces.com/card.aspx?raceid=271299&meetingid=39081&date=2010-06-09&ref=cardmain&refsite=&nav=racecards&pdf=yes
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turfline
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:10 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

InsideMan i have Been using Timeform Ratings for years,, Timeform Perspective is in my opinion the Best,, you have Pink and Blue....Pink is for the Flat and Blue for National Hunt.......

With Timeform Perspective,,you can pay a Deposit and then Instalments, they will send you a folder and the Results pages(white) it gives thier ratings.....

Then there is Timeform Perspective,,Computer format..more expensive.

Postage is Three times a Week....
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turfline
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:14 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

InsideMan do you do Ratings at the Moment...?
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budgie27
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:42 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Timeform offer a free race of the day but you have to be logged in to see it. I use the ratings for the big meetings (Cheltenham and Royal Ascot mainly) or if I go to course I'll pick one up.

I don't think I've ever seen them replicated and I'd expect Timeform would have them closed down pretty quickly if they did.
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dontstopmenow
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:43 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Iv never really used any ratings,although iv looked at em when i fancy a NAP or strongly fancied horse i tend to peep at what rated it is.
Timeform put there ratings up on ATR so Turfline cant work out why you wld pay. Win
If i look at ratings which as i say is very rarely i tend to write down say RP ratings along side a couple of others and if all 3 sites have the same horse highest than i think oh that shd win but very often they dont and at that are usually very short favs anyway. Win
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dontstopmenow
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:57 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at 3 sites i have these top rated for tommow..
3.10Yar Baby Rock 557 25points clear at A.Masseys site
4.40Yar Brave Decision 551 77 points clear Shocked
4.0cBev Rule Breaker 567 27 points clear
3.50Hay Dolphin Rock 590 36 clear
4.20H Flying Silks 595 33 clear..
Could be worth a lucky 31 Laughing Win
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turfline
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:31 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi DSMN, i have Software Designed to my Specifications that does my Ratings,,,i have a total now of 47 variables which was recently updated,,,.

I can feed stats and Filter as i wish,, My Play-In-Lay is my pet ...

But i will be much more conservative on my Blog but will put the 6Lbs or more clear on the Betting Blogs & Systems....

Timeform has very good compilers/handicappers and studets on its staff and are an excellent service.

There are some good books out there if you want to find them, books that will teach you how a handicap is made up and all the stats about horseracing...the internet will supply all the information you require....

Just to add, though there are a lot of site's out there that give Ratings,, my advice is Learn to do your own ratings and you will see a different punting world rather than relying on others, be a research buff and compile your own stats and have your own view on horseracing and dont follow the heard just because they say that is so, in this punting world having an independent mind can pay rewards.
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judoman
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:21 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a very strong believer in the use of ratings for the serious analysis of horse racing. There are those that rely on inside information, gallops reports and so on to supply their selections. That is all very good if you are sure of the source etc.

If you are going to use ratings, as I do, then there are a few things you need to ensure before risking money based on them:

Any set of ratings needs to be reliable, consistent, have a proven track record and to be accurate.

It is for this reason that I disagree entirely with the suggestion that one should generate ones own ratings. In order for those ratings, and here I am talking about the type of ratings a handicapper (lengths, distances and weights) or speed rating generator (times, going corrections, weights carried, standard times etc) would produce, rather than rankings based on things like you in the Postdata box in the Racing Post, need to be proven, consistent, accurate etc. I do not believe it is possible to do for the vast majority of folks (however motivated)

There are lots and lots of ratings out there which you can use - Timeform, Superform, Adrian Massey, Topspeed, RPR and so on and I would urge all punters to use them as the basis of their punting (combined with all the other factors you use such as suitability of distance etc).

However, and this is the key part of this post, the most important thing to do with ratings is to learn to determine whether a rating given to a horse in a race before is significant in the context of the race being investigated.

This discussion of significance is really powerful because for instance you might find:

- a highly rated horse available to bet at big odds.
- a lowly rated horse available at very short odds
- a horse that has imprved its rating on each of its last 3 runs and now faces different conditions which may allow it to improve further still

Skillful interpretation of reliable, accurate ratings and an assessment of the significance can be very useful.

I use both RPR and Topspeed from the Racingpost. Today, a horse called Miss Kitty Grey won at Yarmouth. On her previous start she had run 2nd beaten 1 length over the same C&D as today from an Official Rating of 54. If you check her out you will see that RPR awarded her a rating of 59 for that effort which was about OK for a 54 rated horse. However, today she raced off a mark of only 45, a full 14lbs below the rating given by RPR, and she duly bolted in. In this case, the RPR of 59 was significant because she was running in a handicap. Had the same horse been running in a selling race at level weights against horses with Official marks in the mid 50s to low 60s then the RPR of 59 would have been far less significant. This is what I mean about 'significant in the context of the race'

Anyway, I am always very interested in discussing the merits of ratings and performances so if anyone wants to continue this I would be delighted
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man o bong
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:27 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am a very strong believer in the use of ratings for the serious analysis of horse racing. There are those that rely on inside information, gallops reports and so on to supply their selections. That is all very good if you are sure of the source etc.

If you are going to use ratings, as I do, then there are a few things you need to ensure before risking money based on them:

Any set of ratings needs to be reliable, consistent, have a proven track record and to be accurate.


Brilliant post Judo and i agree wholeheartedly with the opening section. Again these ratings in conjunction with pricing can be brilliant for highlighting value. As the ratings are used widely, and are once again, the same as prices, "someone elses opinion", if you can read form in a line, and comparable with other form and find where not only the prices but the ratings may be "out", then again we are finding opportunities to be taken advantage of.

brilliant post once agin
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judoman
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:45 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers MoB

it's what I have been trying to perfect for years.

for the Oaks and the Derby, I laid Sajjhaa and Bullet Train in the place markets and risked a whopping 12% of my betting bank had either been placed. However, I was supremely confident for these reasons:

1) they were both bottom or near bottom rated on Topspeed in the Racing Post despite having won on their latest starts.

2) I believed the Ratings for these two horses and more importantly ALL the others to be accurate

3) I believed that TOPSPEED would prove to be the SIGNIFICANT rating in the race and as it turned out Sajjhaa and Bullet Train both finished last and Snow Fairy, who was top rated by TS, won the Oaks and Workforce (2nd rated on just his second run of his life) won the Derby.

These are just some of the ways that understanding and interpreting the ratings you choose to use can be highly profitable
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judoman
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:30 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an interesting conundrum involving ratings:

3.05 New Listed Fillies

Horse Official Rating Topspeed RPR

Deirdre 99 115 117
Diam Queen 87 69 103
Eleonora Duse 103 95 121
Kithonia 77 56 97
Lady Darshaan 108 109 123
Nurture 97 86 119
Pink Symphony 100 92 117
Shimmering Surf 84 61 104

Which of the above ratings will prove most significant?
Lady Darshaan is top rated by both the Official Handicapper and RPR, and is second rated on Topspeed. Does that mean she has the best chance? At what price does she become worth a back or a Lay?
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