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Each Way Doubles ?
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lazystakes
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:11 am     Post subject: Each Way Doubles ? Reply with quote

Just caught this at the end of a thread

Nors wrote :

Quote:
They are always running scared of Each Way doubles where you can narrow down a couple of races (especially in the week) to horses that you cant see out of the frame. e,g if a race had betting like this and you backed the 7/1 horse and in the next race the 7/1 horse. If both those horses are placed you are in the money.

They are always on alert for what they call "bad Each Way races".
4/7
3/1
7/1
33/1
40/1
66/1
100/1
100/1



Can anyone go into detail at bit more that they use this quite regular, and make profit

And what returns are avalible at the stated 7/1 doubles and so on etc..

I see races like this a lot but never have done Each Way double with another sounds pretty good

Any One?? Nors??
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lazystakes
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:17 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying to work this out but feel like my brain isn't working probably

If you bet $1 Each Way on a 8/1 in the first and it gets placed at 1/4

$1 on Each Way = $2

if the place comes in at 8.00 then you gets 2.00 odds times the $1 you had gives you your stake back

so when you but your money on next race same outcome will happen unless odds on Each Way that places are higher than 8.00 or one of the horses win

am i right or going mad?
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:23 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just caught this at the end of a thread


Why have you started a new thread if one already exists ???
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:38 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

can someone please explain the Each Way double in more detail please?
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Inatimate1
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:22 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I remember someone saying that bookies fear E/W doubles, but in all honestly, I think bookies would love them...

Think of it this way, 2 races one @ 2.00, and one @ 2.15... If you place an E/W double on two horses @ 4/1 and the first wins and the 2nd is placed, and the terms are 1/4 for the place, then your return would be 4 to a 1 E/W stake (Total Stake 2).

Now, if instead you put a 1 E/W on the first horse, and it won @ 4/1, you would receive 7 back for your 2 stake, then if you were to put a further 3.5 E/W on another 4/1 (thus continuing from your original 2 stake) and it finished 2nd, then you would receive back 10.50, these are with the same terms as in the first instance.

Also, in the second case, if you put 1 E/W the first runner finished 2nd, then you would receive back 3. Putting 1.50 E/W on the next and it finishing 2nd would return 4.50, so a profit of 2.50 from your original stake....

Alternatively, if both win, the E/W double bet would return 29.
Two seperate bets would return 24.50....

Summarising...

Backing two 4/1 shots with E/W terms of 1/4

1st wins / 2nd places

E/W Double bet return = 4
Two singles return = 10.50

1st places / 2nd wins

E/W double bet return = 4
Two singles return = 10.50

1st places / 2nd places
E/W double bet return = 4
Two singles return = 4.50

1st wins / 2nd wins
E/W double bet return = 29
Two singles return = 24.50


In my view, the benefit comes from going with two singles, although the best posible outcome leads to +4.50, the other 3 outcomes lead to a return of +6.50 and + 0.50 when compared to the E/W double method.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that's how it works, Confused
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:46 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think I remember someone saying that bookies fear E/W doubles, but in all honestly, I think bookies would love them...


Bookies certainly hate Each Way bandits, those people who take advantage of fixed place odds (1/4 or 1/5 of win odds) in races with short priced Favs. The 2nd Fav is often highly likely to place but unlikely to win. You can often get Evens to place when the BF place only market might be 1.40. Plus occassionally the red hot fav disappoints and you get a win bonus.

But bookies look out for the BANDITS and act accordingly - restricting or closing accounts. So its a short-term winner only.
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:55 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Intimate1 you are quoting odds of 4/1, well imagine if only one of those in the double was 16/1. an evens and 4/1 double at a quarter of the odds. They are less concerned at 4/1 but concern grows with bigger prices.
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Inatimate1
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:47 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Its still about preference in that case nors

16/1 and 4/1, 1/4 for the place

Both Place
Double returns = 10
Singles returns = 9

16/1 wins, 4/1 Place
Double returns = 10
Singles returns = 33

16/1 Place, 4/1 Wins
Double returns = 10
Single returns = 21

Both Win
Double returns = 95
Single returns = 77

Admittedly the return on both placing and both winning is lower with singles, but if the 16/1 wins, and the 4/1 places, the return on the singles is 23 more than the return on the E/W double, whereas although if both win, the return on the double is 18 more than the return on the singles, a 20p double on both to win would increase your singles stake by 20p, but if both then win you would only pick up 1 less than the double and still have a significant advantage in the case of only 1 winner and a place.

Confused
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:08 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

The original question was "tips on upsetting the bookmakers". I was reporting what they dont like. Win

Last edited by nors on Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Inatimate1
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:27 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember now nors, I couldn't find the thread it was in, but now you have reminded me I have found it, yes i can see your point, they would very much be against it in the case you outlined imho Win
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:27 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They are always on alert for what they call "bad Each Way races".

4/7
3/1
7/1
33/1
40/1
66/1
100/1
100/1


Stumbled across this post and thought i'd expand. Races like this, the one you have stated can often be profitable for the punter. In this race it's fair to say that the jolly will win more often then not, and is highly odds on to finish in the frame, which in this case is the first 3. Therefore by backing either the 3/1 or the 7/1 shot you have essentially got a free crack at the favourite, because if the race runs to form then they should both be placed and whichever you have backed you will get a good return. This of course isn't completely foolproof, there's always a chance you will get a duff run from your selected horse, so by no means am I saying to back every 2nd fav in a race like this - but if you do your research and you can find value against the favourite then this is the kind of race that bookies look out for. From experience working in bookmakers they will send out Alerts for races such as this one, and limit customers from placing hefty e/w wagers on them.

Cool Cool Cool
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:34 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

The key here is even if the win odds are accurate, the place odds wont be.

As traditional bookies have their place odds set dependent on their win odds of course and the win odds in racing are normally, well mostly, set by exchange odds and that is a win only market. This is the issue for the bookie but where the punter can gain value.

Find a race with odds similar to this and compare the fractional place odds you would get with a bookie on the Each Way part of your bet with the place only odds at a betting exchange to see what i mean.

Assuming 1/5th the odds, the place part of your Each Way bet on the 3/1 shot would be 1.6. It is likely on the exchange that would be closer to 1.2 maybe. Thats where the margin is for the punter. So even if the 3/1 odds are fair value, you can get value on the place part of the bet. You dont have to double these up of course.

Issue is though, do this 2 or 3 times and your account will be limited or closed!
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